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Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

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Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby Sir Caetrel » 2012-02-03

Are the specs for this in the current rulebook up to date?

In summary:

3 ft. min. length

blade min. 9 inches from core

blade min. 12 inches in long

no blade thickness min.


There isn't a whole lot of ass to a weapon built on those specs, it is especially small in comparison to the Halberd specs.
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2012-02-03

I think thats the point. Its pretty much made so that you can make danish axes, bearded axes, etc. These weapons could break shields and the heads on them are hard to make and huge.
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby Lord Valfryn » 2012-02-03

Yea, magnus was swinging a tiny black axe last event..... woof. It looked comically short in a 2 handed grip, but I will be damned if I didn't jump after he started SBing and saying "black".
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby Sir Caetrel » 2012-02-03

Cool. Gonna add this to my "weird things I want to make" list.
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby Lord Valfryn » 2012-02-03

:o
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby lorewraith » 2012-02-04

heres a quick inquiry. how anyone made a successful halberd? Thats one of the things on my "wierd weapons to make list". But before then the flanged mace.
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby PadreCaedes » 2012-02-04

I haven't seen a proper Halberd on the field in years. I think maybe Thrush was wielding one during the movie war, but outside of that I only recall the sparse black axes and glaives.
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2012-02-04

I think you never see them because the specs are ridiculous. Its the issue that we had with the glaive specs before they were changed. I would like to see more of the weapons we never see, and change the specs to reflect the more recent technology. A lot of our specs are from the 80's and 90's
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby Lord Valfryn » 2012-02-04

Requiring the blades to protrude so far from the haft causes inevitable blade roll. The extensive lenghth only increaces the chance of an offcentered strike, and therefore - more blade roll.

I wouldn't mind dropping the blade width, or what have you.. especially if we finally buckled down on the fighter SB trait...
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby lorewraith » 2012-02-04

tell you what since I'm planning on building one I'll just make a make one leave it uncovered and bring it to a future event so we can see if it's viable. and with the halberd being a pole weapon with a 1foot extended blade that was one of my biggest concerns. the blade roll.
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby Sir Caetrel » 2012-02-04

They started making glaives because the halberd specs were silly. The trade off was no shield break. This was late 90s.

Sometime in the last few years when I was gone, they let a black axe under 6 ft break shields, but kept the ancient halberd specs. Back in the day, 6 feet or go home was how SB worked.

Then more recently, my spider sense tells me the last 18 months, glaives were streamlined to be even more useable, but still no SB.

So what is the fear? An ultralight black weapon with a big reach, 6-8 ft, that breaks shields, and can easily have a red stab tip safely put on?
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby lorewraith » 2012-02-04

My plan was this. Build a single blade 2ft long axe blade that attatchs via 2 points on the pole and have a red stab at the top of the pole. since I have no experience wielding an axe style weapon as of yet I'll practice when not on the field with it.

But that being say at the moment the only part I'm thinking about is the blade of the halberd and it is a future project. there is much I need to learn at this time with some builds. and I will consolt about axe blade with someone how is knowledge of building such weapons before I do any cutting of foam.

Right now I am happy with the glaive I have built even if it is a bit heavy on the blade.

Edit: fixing post
Last edited by lorewraith on 2012-02-04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby Lord Cailen Sendor » 2012-02-04

Its not a fear it is a reality

1. the glaves now can be made super fast as you are now aware

2. that would lead to a weapon that in under 6 seconds weilded from a skilled person could break any sheild with the full swings required...

3. if you want a weapon that can weigh less then 2 lbs to break sheilds so easily then by all means make the new design glaives break sheilds

To me because of the black axe and halbred requirement it makes them inheratly hard to use exffectivly and unweildy which is exactly why it is hard to make a good halbred - both make you give up a super fast easy to use weapon to get the bonus of sheild break. From experience I know if allowed to use one of the light new design glaives to break sheilds I could break one in 4 seconds with hard solid full swings... And I am not the best fighter trained in thier use...
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby Sir Caetrel » 2012-02-05

Thanks Pat that makes sense. I am trying to understand the logic behind these specs and wonder if it is consistent. I think I can make a Shield Breaking axe that weighs well under 2 lbs that is what has me wondering.
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby Lord Cailen Sendor » 2012-02-05

yea the thing about axes is that they inherantly are unweildy and you scrafice having a normal size sheild to weild one ... that being said with 2 bucklers and a super light axe with some practice using it would be something that could wreak some real havoc when flanked by sheildmen that help to cover your sides :)
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby BaiterofBAMC » 2012-02-05

Any inherent problem with halberds and large axes come from the sheer dimensions required to make them. I've made and used and axe or two and the biggest problem is the foam itself curling over repeated strikes. The only way I've been able to stop that is by using hide armor grade leather to encase the striking surface.
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby Sir Caetrel » 2012-02-05

Have you used 1.5" or 2" thick MC foam on these? 2.2 lb is what people use mostly, but there is heavier as well. you could use 3 or 4 lb MC for the bulk of the blade, and 2.2 on the edge for a softer striking surface.

The MC stuff I am working with seems like it would hold up fine for a black axe head (9" from core, 12" long). Halcon's axe is pretty sturdy.
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2012-02-06

The thing that annoys me is that people would rather not change the rules for them because they don't want their shields broken. That would rather have someone wielding an unwieldy(see what I did there) weapon that is pretty much ineffective. Why not make all weapons more streamline, so that everything can be made. I would rather see more halberds, axes, and stuff. It gives more room for people that want to play a certain type of character, and adds to the look of the stagnated sword and board, black swords and spears.
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby lorewraith » 2012-02-06

here's a silly question, other then the basic diminsions of the weapon is there a set shape for the blade of the halberd. because what I'm imagining for a build breaks the mold of the traditional halberd blade(axe head shape) of the weapon.
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby PadreCaedes » 2012-02-06

What was the excuse for changing the rules on glaive then? The weapon at the old specs was fast and simple to make, and quite frankly for the range and damage level it offered I'd prefer a weapon like that to have a little ass behind it. When my glaive is rebuilt it will still be larger than minimum blade spec.

I can buy the idea for re-sizing the halberd specs, but not making them superlight and fast. If you want a weapon like that for the purposes of shield breaking(black axe included) and feel they are so grossly unwieldy then make them smaller, but DO NOT allow the reduction of their specs and size for the purposes of "stream lining" their construction, or for having a superlight shield breaker.

Keep in mind...there are no ineffective weapons. Only ineffective fighters.
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-02-06

Safety. The old specs put all the weight at the end. They are now inherently more rigid, and better balanced.

I have a short black ax that's faster than you want to think about. It doesn't change * about game flow... People are terrified of losing their shields, they don't want to learn to block with weapons...

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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2012-02-06

The thing is that the weapon is made with retarded specs. The reason its ineffective is because the specs make you build it in an inefficient way. The new glaive specs are made to make the weapon easier to build and easier to wield. They are not super light, lighter yes compared to the old spec, but not super light. If I wanted to make a super light glaive, I could and it would make you cry.

The goal is to make it easier to build and wield, not make it super light.

Thrush ninjaed me, but I agree.
Last edited by Sir Tyriel Firebrand on 2012-02-06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Battle-Axe (Black, Shield Destroying)

Postby Alzarahn » 2012-02-06

I am in the same camp as Tyriel and Thrush here. I happen to have a black axe close to the minimum specs, and it's still chunky. I wasn't aware you could do a bearded or danish style however, and assumed the minimum edge dimensions applied all the way from the blade to the haft creating a bulky square. If this isn't the case, you bet I'm changing my blade design. Even after that, the minimum length from edge to haft seems a little excessive. Even if the size went down a bit, it would still be a much slower weapon than other black weapons like Black Sword.... All the weight is on the head, which makes recoil slower no matter. The size should be reduced just to prevent blade roll, which seems like a big flaw.
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Moot had some pretty decent Halberds as I recall

Postby Taggart MacBannion » 2012-02-06

Moot used to have more than a couple halberds that would field, I've only ever seen them on the racks, but I'm sure that the technique to build a proper one with minimal blade roll is out there, we did it, it's just very annoying to bother with it.
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Re: Moot had some pretty decent Halberds as I recall

Postby Sir Caetrel » 2012-02-06

Taggart MacBannion wrote:Moot used to have more than a couple halberds that would field, I've only ever seen them on the racks, but I'm sure that the technique to build a proper one with minimal blade roll is out there, we did it, it's just very annoying to bother with it.



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