Costume Rules

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President
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Costume Rules

Post by President » 2012-03-13

Folks,

The Marshals have shown some leniency to folks with good costumes despite the wearing of symbols not part of Darkon. As has been the custom FOREVER, new Darkon participants have 3 events to get their act together and under the proposal before the EB they will get 5.

I am asking you now, get your friends from other clubs to either form a country or stop wearing surcoats with symbols not used by an existing country.

John Machate

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Sir Tyriel Firebrand
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2012-03-13

What about symbols of defunct countries that they are in?
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Ogre Solaris
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by Ogre Solaris » 2012-03-13

Technically, by the rules it doesn't look like it.

"If a Nomad was once a member of a Country that has gone defunct, or a member of a Country whose status is suspended, he may continue to wear that Country’s surcoat and symbol on his shield."

You could wear a cog on your shield but not your chest. Doesn't really make sense to me though. Maybe a proposal is in order?

EDIT: Duh. I totally read that wrong. Surcoat and symbol merged into one word in my head. You should be protected under current rules.
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fingers630
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by fingers630 » 2012-03-13

Defunct surcoats are fine. Surcoats from other clubs are not. For example, the dude you tag teamed me with in black and white has a Dag surcoat I believe, which is not allowable after 3 events. Make him wear a cog =P.
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Thrush Svartehjertet
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-03-13

That's Vox of the Gestiguiste, who WERE A COUNTRY in Darkon in like 2002 or 2003 for a few months. Erikose, Laithe, Shade and Brother Henry all came out, maybe Tolgor too. Vox is actively in Gestiguiste now, they just did not keep their country status up to snuff back then... So he's good to go as well.

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fingers630
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by fingers630 » 2012-03-13

Ah ok. I recall seeing them a couple times but never knew they declared an actual country. Carry on good sir!
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TitusV
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by TitusV » 2012-03-13

Brother Henry is still coming out at Dag events? Thought he moved to Florida.

Ive been meaning to say hi to the dude you guys are talking about. Didn't know his name was Vox. Gesteguiste were cool dudes.

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Lord Dubh
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-03-13

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:That's Vox of the Gestiguiste, who WERE A COUNTRY in Darkon in like 2002 or 2003 for a few months. Erikose, Laithe, Shade and Brother Henry all came out, maybe Tolgor too. Vox is actively in Gestiguiste now, they just did not keep their country status up to snuff back then... So he's good to go as well.

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Prove it.

http://www.darkon.org/history.html
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TitusV
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by TitusV » 2012-03-13

I don't think that the history page is all inclusive. Its missing a few i think. Velkin Velve is not up there... Were they a country or a sub unit?

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Re: Costume Rules

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-03-13

Hah, why? I would'nt know how if I tried... I just know those cats tried out Darkon for like half a year and did'nt have time to play both games...

Titus, no, brother Henry hasnt been around in years. Notice I was talkin' about in the early 2000s? lol

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PadreCaedes
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by PadreCaedes » 2012-03-13

Lord Dubh wrote:Prove it.
http://www.darkon.org/history.html


Missing from this list I'm sure are several nations that have existed in Darkon if even for a little while. Velkyn Velve for instance was most certainly a nation in Darkon, but does not exist on the list of former nations. Why?
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Havoc
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by Havoc » 2012-03-13

"If a Nomad was once a member of a Country that has gone defunct, or a member of a Country whose status is suspended, he may continue to wear that Country’s surcoat and symbol on his shield."

To wear a countries symbol and surcoat you MUST have been in that country. If you are wearing a countries livery that you were never a part of you are breaking the rules. PG 41 Online rulebook.

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Amazing_Iltztafein
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2012-03-14

Havoc wrote:"If a Nomad was once a member of a Country that has gone defunct, or a member of a Country whose status is suspended, he may continue to wear that Country’s surcoat and symbol on his shield."

To wear a countries symbol and surcoat you MUST have been in that country. If you are wearing a countries livery that you were never a part of you are breaking the rules. PG 41 Online rulebook.

This rule is an archaic joke and completely unenforceable. As we do not keep track of who was in what country at any given time or at all, we can't really enforce it.

And why should we? If something is allowed, it's simply allowed. It shouldn't be allowed for certain people. If I bring a friend out, and I want to let them use one of my shields, do I suddenly need to recover them because they are the colors of my defunct country? I would still want to use them, but since I'm letting somebody that WASN'T in The Empyrean use them, the rule says I have to change them. That is simply pointless.

On another note: The whole rule is hard to enforce because some failed at record keeping in the past. As was pointed out, some countries we KNOW existed aren't on the realms page. Does that mean somebody can't wear their symbol? Hell no - the rules say that they can wear it if it were a country. I'm sure it'll take some looking into, but most countries that existed likely have a record of them somewhere at some point. But then again, bad records, so maybe not... I think we have to take some people at their word on some of these.

For instance, when I first joined there was a map that showed that the See Think guys had some land, but I don't see them in the realms list, either.
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by Sir Caetrel » 2012-03-14

Here is the thing...people play Darkon, they need to play by our rules. I don't go to Dag or Amt wearing knightly adornments, even though I've been dorking longer than some people have been alive. *, the entire country of Chendrolyn can't wear their surcoats at Amtgard! Imagine what big bad guys we would seem like if a whole unit tried to form at Darkon and we told them they could not use their symbol or surcoats, despite them being 15+ years old.

We need to respect crossgamers more than we do, IMO. BUT they need to respect our rules too. We just need to communicate better. It is easy enough for a group of people to show up with 4 people in colors, a banner, and a history. Gratz...now even if you go defunct in 5 events you can field in those surcoats forever.

Velken is probably not listed because they changed their identity to Ched Nasad. They probably should be listed, as the two are very different entities with very different identities, and obviously different names. There are several pre-2000 guys in Ched like Lanham and Maggot who probably remember the details.

Gestiguiste- I do not know if they ever delared, but when I was on the EB they did field as a country for a few months. This would have been 2002, give or take a year.
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Lord Dubh
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-03-14

TitusV wrote:I don't think that the history page is all inclusive. Its missing a few i think. Velkin Velve is not up there... Were they a country or a sub unit?



Thanks, you just broke the entire argument :lol:

Velkin Velve has been a country TWICE so how it is missing is confounding, and if a large multi-year nation is missing how do we cover those that existed for just a few months?
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Thrush Svartehjertet
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-03-14

Yep, that list sucks. Anyway, Gestiguiste were a Darkon country, and Vox has been in it as long as I can remember, is someone in good garb of a defunct country who plays with honor and integrity, and is STILL A MEMBER of that country, though it has since stopped attending Darkon, really our problem? sheesh

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Re: Costume Rules

Post by jayjay » 2012-03-14

Sir Caetrel wrote: *, the entire country of Chendrolyn can't wear their surcoats at Amtgard!


sure they can. a purple pheonix is not restricted. only white (knight playing a paladin), black (knight playing an AP), and red with yellow (warlord) trim pheonix's are restricted.
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Thrush Svartehjertet
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-03-14

woah, * just got... real? lol

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Fiyero
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by Fiyero » 2012-03-14

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Amazing_Iltztafein
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2012-03-14

Sir Caetrel wrote:Velken is probably not listed because they changed their identity to Ched Nasad. They probably should be listed, as the two are very different entities with very different identities, and obviously different names. There are several pre-2000 guys in Ched like Lanham and Maggot who probably remember the details.

While you were out...

:P

Nah, there was another Velkyn AFTER Ched that still existed up to two years ago. They are the one featured in the movies. So yea, they should definitely be listed.
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Lord Dubh
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-03-14

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:Yep, that list sucks. Anyway, Gestiguiste were a Darkon country, and Vox has been in it as long as I can remember, is someone in good garb of a defunct country who plays with honor and integrity, and is STILL A MEMBER of that country, though it has since stopped attending Darkon, really our problem? sheesh

Thrush
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Darkon the game has to have rules. Those game rules should make sense, be enforced and be enforceable. There is no luxury of picking and choosing what game rules we enforce and which ones we do not, that is now how things work.

Not that you are doing it hear but I am pretty sick of the whining about rules being enforced. I have set TWO examples of changing the rules so that they make sense and are enforceable. I will not be doing more.

One proposal on costumes has passed. The second part will be voted on after the campout.

As for Gestiguiste, I knew they were a county so I want to kick you in the balls for making the assumption I was talking about the guy in the Gestiguiste surcoat and funky hat. I really hate that....
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Sir Tyriel Firebrand
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2012-03-14

Man, this thread got huge. I just asked so that I could get a ruling from the Prez lol.
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Thrush Svartehjertet
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-03-15

Lord Dubh wrote:As for Gestiguiste, I knew they were a county so I want to kick you in the balls for making the assumption I was talking about the guy in the Gestiguiste surcoat and funky hat. I really hate that....


fingers630 wrote:Defunct surcoats are fine. Surcoats from other clubs are not. For example, the dude you tag teamed me with in black and white has a Dag surcoat I believe, which is not allowable after 3 events. Make him wear a cog =P.


As per usual, Fingers stirs the *, and others take the fall.

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fingers630
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by fingers630 » 2012-03-15

LOL I just named a dude that wasnt wearing a surcoat that I recall ever being a country. they werent on the official country list, and while I do remember them coming out a few times about 10 years ago, I dont remember them ever declaring.

guess you can call that stirring *, but you said they did in fact declare, and I dropped the matter. of course anytime I can deflect the fall to bendore is a win.
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Re: Costume Rules

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-03-15

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:
Lord Dubh wrote:As for Gestiguiste, I knew they were a county so I want to kick you in the balls for making the assumption I was talking about the guy in the Gestiguiste surcoat and funky hat. I really hate that....


fingers630 wrote:Defunct surcoats are fine. Surcoats from other clubs are not. For example, the dude you tag teamed me with in black and white has a Dag surcoat I believe, which is not allowable after 3 events. Make him wear a cog =P.


As per usual, Fingers stirs the *, and others take the fall.

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I'll kick him instead. He probably deserves it for other reasons too....
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