Financial Troubles of Todays Yutes.

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Inox
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Financial Troubles of Todays Yutes.

Post by Inox » 2012-05-15

Higher dues will dissuade the young & strapped for cash.
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Re: Are you old? I mean, are you OLD?

Post by Ericson » 2012-05-15

I knew the higher dues debate would come back....

Only took 36 days too.

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Re: Are you old? I mean, are you OLD?

Post by fingers630 » 2012-05-15

LOL any 16-20yr old that cant afford $10 a month needs to reevaluate some things. Especially when I guarantee a good portion of them 1. drink 2. smoke 3. play an online game that costs $ a month 4. live with their folks/someone else without rent. 5. have weapons/armor that cost double what my first set of weapons/armor cost

*, Ill hire you to paint my 40k Models for your battle fees if you are that broke.
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Re: Are you old? I mean, are you OLD?

Post by Ericson » 2012-05-15

WTT: LF Dog walker 1/week. Will pay Darkon dues each month.

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Re: Are you old? I mean, are you OLD?

Post by Sir Caetrel » 2012-05-16

Inox is right. This would have prohibited me from ever coming to Darkon as a teenager. Luckily the dues were 50 cents and that was easy enough to come up with.

There is alot we can do to build membership, and some things are being done or in the works now which is cool. I don't think it is prudent to laugh off the reality that $5 dues will harm attendance and growth to at least some degree. The worst thing is that we'll never measure it, because some kids just won't ever come out and we'll never know they even exist.
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Re: Are you old? I mean, are you OLD?

Post by Ulrich » 2012-05-16

That is such crap. No disrespect. I totally agree with Fingers and not to hijack Tyra's origional thread but since you guys have already, here you go. I too remember when battles cost fifty cents but I also remember when gas was under a buck a gallon. It is what it is. I do not know how much attendance has gone up since the days of duct taped covered (no cloth) weapons but from what I've seen it is significant. The cost to play the game is fair at 5, even at 10 bucks it would be fair, hell I bet 90% of the Darkon populace has gone to see a movie this month and spent well over twenty clams at the cinema. If your too broke or too lazy to come up with five dollars every two weeks, stay home! If the money is such a burden to you and you need work, come to my camp in June. I'm sure we can find work that will please us and make you fairly uncomfortable. Look on the bright side, at the very least we will make it rain and you will be able to afford your dues (just not look at yourself in a mirror lol). Isn't that worth a little humiliation? Seriously, let the dues thing go. If you noticed it's mostly you older, career minded professionals ( at least I hope your not broke living in your moms basement) crying about it.

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Re: Are you old? I mean, are you OLD?

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-05-16

fingers630 wrote:Ill hire you to paint my 40k Models for your battle fees if you are that broke.


You should print this on cards for any time someone bitches about dues. Just hand them your card, "Paint My * For $105". For real people, with the dues increase, Darkon costs $105 a year. You have a birthday, and xmas. Ask for $105 for xmas next year. pay the entire year up front, DARKON ALLOWS IT.

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Re: Are you old? I mean, are you OLD?

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-05-16

Sir Caetrel wrote:Inox is right. This would have prohibited me from ever coming to Darkon as a teenager. Luckily the dues were 50 cents and that was easy enough to come up with.

There is alot we can do to build membership, and some things are being done or in the works now which is cool. I don't think it is prudent to laugh off the reality that $5 dues will harm attendance and growth to at least some degree. The worst thing is that we'll never measure it, because some kids just won't ever come out and we'll never know they even exist.


$5 is the new $.50 Caetrel. Sad but true. I see the way my 16 year old brother goes through money with his friends. When Darkon dues were $.50, how much did it cost to see a movie? How much was a beer at a bar? Movies ar $10 minimum, and beers ar $4.50 and up at any bar. This argument is stupid and invalid in 2012. Everyone in Darkon has a cell phone, my phone bill is over $50 a month with no data plan.

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Re: Are you old? I mean, are you OLD?

Post by fingers630 » 2012-05-16

LOL exactly. Darkon was $1 when I first came out, at 18ish, and I made $4.50 an hour as it was minimum wage back then. I got $5-$10 for allowance back then. My kid gets double that now as the price of everything has gone up.

I stand by my statement. If you cannot afford $10 a month for this hobby, you need to prioritize * in your life. No offense.
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Re: Are you old? I mean, are you OLD?

Post by jayjay » 2012-05-16

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:
I think the NQ! guys are the ones dragging our average age down... Dunno if any of them are over 30...

Thrush
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i'll be 33 in a few days. i also think dan, anok, and boo are also at or very near the 30 mark. we also have some new blood that's pushin our age avg up.


fingers wrote:I stand by my statement. If you cannot afford $10 a month for this hobby, you need to prioritize * in your life. No offense.


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Re: Are you old? I mean, are you OLD?

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-05-16

We could just start having events at Burtonsville and Redland ONLY.
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Re: Are you old? I mean, are you OLD?

Post by Ericson » 2012-05-16

Ulrich wrote:hell I bet 90% of the Darkon populace has gone to see a movie this month and spent well over twenty clams at the cinema.


Of course 90% of Darkon went to the movies. The Avengers was released.

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Re: Are you old? I mean, are you OLD?

Post by ylinett » 2012-05-16

Lord Dubh wrote:We could just start having events at Burtonsville and Redland ONLY.



Or Roundtree.

Yaron - Over 30.

P.S. Even at our practices everyone ponies up $5.
P.P.S. That is all it takes to cook an all you care to eat feast...every other weekend.
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Re: Are you old? I mean, are you OLD?

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-05-16

Moderators, please split this thread starting at the first post made by INOX. Give Tyra her thread back.
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Re: Are you old? I mean, are you OLD?

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-05-16

Chosen Blood equips players who fight with us. There goes the armor cost... but then again we do have some prereqs.. we likely would pay dues for a CB member who is genuinely strapped ( nonsmokers with IRS pay docking, w/ 4 kids and also physically fit)

As to the "less kids argument"... I feel like we have lots of kids at events, they tend to fight 3-4 rounds with 2 swords and then smoke and socialize on the sidelines until 3, then they leave. I always wondered how people who spend so much time on the bench have SOOOO many battle tales to share. Meh, who knows.... maybe I'm being a grouch.
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Re: Are you old? I mean, are you OLD?

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-05-16

Nah dude, those of us who do not leave the field all day are the ones who should tell tales, but we're too busy fighting...

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Re: Are you old? I mean, are you OLD?

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2012-05-16

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:
fingers630 wrote:Ill hire you to paint my 40k Models for your battle fees if you are that broke.


You should print this on cards for any time someone * about dues. Just hand them your card, "Paint My * For $105". For real people, with the dues increase, Darkon costs $105 a year.

$130. There are 26 events in a year. But either way, yeah - someone out here can afford to buy something from some younger person that might actually have some ability. Painting models is a good example by fingers.
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Re: Financial Troubles of Todays Yutes.

Post by MOD_Gnosis » 2012-05-16

YOUR WISH IS MY COMMAND.

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Re: Are you old? I mean, are you OLD?

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-05-16

Amazing_Iltztafein wrote:
Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:
fingers630 wrote:Ill hire you to paint my 40k Models for your battle fees if you are that broke.


You should print this on cards for any time someone * about dues. Just hand them your card, "Paint My * For $105". For real people, with the dues increase, Darkon costs $105 a year.

$130. There are 26 events in a year. But either way, yeah - someone out here can afford to buy something from some younger person that might actually have some ability. Painting models is a good example by fingers.


I meant 26, and did math on 21... weird. I did get hit in the head at practice last night...

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Re: Financial Troubles of Todays Yutes.

Post by BagervanJager » 2012-05-16

Having spent about 100 dollars for a year of bonus content on a local podcast, 130 for a hobby isn't that hard to justify personally.

But what have the actual youth of this organization been saying? So far most of the arguing is between the established older crowd, aside from one or two of us. I know we got em, so lets get them on here and talk about it. Doesn't help the argument when I say the 20 something whippersnappers I hobble with aren't worried about the price hike. Then again we're all mil and vets in good careers, so it's not a good metric for the problem.

I'm with Fingers and Thrush. If you want play the game, work the money math.

If we want to keep a cap on the prices, lets keep a close on the costs of the organization and know what's going where.
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Re: Financial Troubles of Todays Yutes.

Post by Sancho » 2012-05-16

To the "it's only $5" crowd. How much did your weapons cost? How about garb? How about gas to and from? How about drinks and whatever food you bring to day events? (I won't include things like shields or armor or spell balls, etc because they aren't mandatory. They sure do help a ton though don't they?). Don't forget about rebuilds on those weapons or worn out garb. How about tent, food, drink, something to sleep on, etc for weekend events? To say that even day events only cost 5 bucks is just short sighted. Also thinking that upping the cost to get into an event by over 200% isn't going to make those on a tight budget pause is pretty short sighted. I am not saying it will cause numbers to drop drastically, but you should think about how you sound when you dismiss anyone who cringes a bit at the much steeper cost.

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Re: Financial Troubles of Todays Yutes.

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-05-16

To the "to the it's only 5$ crowd" crowd :
my weapons cost about 20 bucks each to make, 8 dollars a rebuild.
my fighting garb cost me less than 60 bones (karate pants, tabard w/embroidery)
Casual garb usually cost me between 40- 80 per outfit (+10 clams per spider embroidery)
my noble garbs cost about 150, close to 400 for my leather tabard
80 to construct my fighting leather tabard
300 for my hide suit (some self constructed)
350 for my plate under leather (self constructed)
sometimes i wear an under armor base layer 35ish?

I don't own camping gear, because I cannot afford the gear nor the time to use it. (A choice I made as a player).

I am not a doctor, lawyer or an indian chief. I saved up and bought pieces over the years.

So after seeing this... i realize how small of a fraction 130 dollars a year is...
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Re: Financial Troubles of Todays Yutes.

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2012-05-16

Sancho wrote:To the "it's only $5" crowd. How much did your weapons cost? How about garb? How about gas to and from? How about drinks and whatever food you bring to day events? (I won't include things like shields or armor or spell balls, etc because they aren't mandatory. They sure do help a ton though don't they?). Don't forget about rebuilds on those weapons or worn out garb. How about tent, food, drink, something to sleep on, etc for weekend events? To say that even day events only cost 5 bucks is just short sighted. Also thinking that upping the cost to get into an event by over 200% isn't going to make those on a tight budget pause is pretty short sighted. I am not saying it will cause numbers to drop drastically, but you should think about how you sound when you dismiss anyone who cringes a bit at the much steeper cost.

When I was practically poor, I managed to find the money to still play this game. I got rides with friends and played a mage. Don't need expensive armor and don't have to worry about making a large shield. $2 and $5 wouldn't've made a difference for me a few years ago during that period.

I know several people who sleep in vehicles or on the ground under a tarp in this game... They clearly didn't feel the need to use a tent and never have. It's not for everybody, but it works for some.

There are usually places in life to cut costs, especially when you are young... But a lot of people won't make that decision because they'd rather have it all.

I know of at least one person playing right now that is completely unemployed and yet manages to make it to just about every event, so it's possible and has been done/is being done. I doubt we have a whole lot of actual poor folks coming out who would have to choose between eating and Darkon. But that's the point - if they have any other hobby that costs any amount of money, they are choosing between the two hobbies and not simply running out of money because we charge too much. You can't do it all in life.

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Re: Financial Troubles of Todays Yutes.

Post by Ericson » 2012-05-16

When I first fielded, I spent $20 on scrap fabric from Joanns (50% off regular price), old night shirt, workout pants I already had, and boots that I wore anyways. Sure, over time I got more things, but I still wear that same scrap fabric shirt underneath my armor every event (it doubles as padding), the same boots (new soles though), and the workout pants when it is wet outside. If someone really doesn't have the money for garb, go to Joann's every friday and buy some fabric scraps until you got a whole setup.

I really never cared about the whole "young people can't afford it" argument. I wanted to see the Darkon finances after a very bad experience at a VFW here in the Maryland area, where someone was/still is stealing money. I spent a lot of time volunteering at that place, cooking, cleaning, calling Bingo on the weekends. The bar would bring in over $10,000 a month in sales, yet the VFW was loosing $5,000 a month. The expenses of the post never added up to $15,000 a month, more like $3,000 per month. However since all the sales were cash and checks, there was no financial accountability.

I think there are 2 different reasons people are against the dues change. The "youngins" argument is just one. Mine is the above. Not that I think anyone is stealing. I just inherently distrust people when it comes to financial issues.

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Re: Financial Troubles of Todays Yutes.

Post by Lord Cailen Sendor » 2012-05-16

I started fighting back in the early 80's starting in high school... the following was back then how I managed to play...

learned to "sew" used old sheets ect....
learned to make my own weapons by trial and error over and over... materials got from various sources... including but not limited to dumpster diving at carpet stores and asking local stores for their trash...
Got a job to pay for my hobbie and gas (tippies tacos and jerries sub shop)

After about 2 years I started Elidor with 2 other players...
Upgraded job to construction for more cash flow....
Learned to make armor (using street signs that the company was going to throw out)...
Funded weapons and gear for others in Elidor paying in both time spent making gear and weapons and costuming for others in country as well as financially supporting the country for years carpooling to get others to events and praticing 5-6 times a week...

Retired as King of Elidor ...
continued to help all members in Elidor and those outside of Elidor with anything that was needed as i could.

Now...
I am the primary caregiver for my son AND I work side handyman jobs to help support my family and pay for my hobby so it does not impact my families finances...
Reciently have spent over 1000 dollars on things from armor - materials - foam - rivits - leather to outfit myself properly for our "game" and to properly represent myself as a player intending to win the Thrown of our game.

If you take all the cash I have spent on others it FAR exceedes any I have personally spent on my own gear. yes the thought that 5$ is not the real cost of our sport each event is not a reality BUT 5$ is fair and if I was back in high school I would figure a way to make sure I could pay it to be able to fight... It is not a huge amount compared to what it used to be based on what things used to cost. Really these days there are many ways to get the gear you need to fight with and the minium costuming to do our sport to say 5$ prevents players from doing this is *. I and others for years have helped players in and out of my country to get what they need to fight... this has not changed nor do I see it changing any time soon! If you want to fight Darkon there are ways to do it on the cheap - if you want to spend a fortune to play Darkon you can do it easily ---- BUT 5$ will not prevent any person really wanting to play from playing LETS PLEASE BE REAL

When I had no funds to play Darkon reciently I started making and selling gear not for profit but rather to give me just enough funds to play so it would not impact my families finances... in this manner i was able to pay for the hundreds of dollars in gas to make it to events that are over a hour away from my home. Normally I drive a suv that gets close to 30 miles to the gallon ... but when Darkon needs things like castles - noble rings --- lots of gear brought to events I drive my truck that only gets 14 miles a gallon... i eat this difference in cash to support the game I love - it is what we all do in some way or another to participate in our sport but that being said 5$ is fair --- it is needed --- and it is being used to keep our game going... it was presented properly to the game last year and this year as the rules for our game dictate ... we as a game in senate voted to pass the increase ... the increase was implimented per the rules... really this conversation is getting old fast and if anyone who wants the game to change its cost per day then write something up and try and get it threw senate otherwise the continuation of this constant bitching is usless and counter productive.

-Cailen
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