Best success % for landsearches?

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AndorOfDargarth
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Best success % for landsearches?

Post by AndorOfDargarth » 2012-11-27

What (estimated) fraction of landsearches are successful? What fraction should be successful?

Dargarth started with the Darkon landsearch list, minus the no encounter roll (such a sad roll for everyone, we came to swordfight, right?), but the monsters usually wiped the floor with our smaller, underleveled, underarmored countries. So we've been trying to optimize the list so that most fights are at least interesting fights. But the best formula is really probably beyond our ken, some kind of derivative or something. I'm sure Darkon knows much more about this.

How do you see the state of landsearches? What would be better? What's the best percentage?

Andor

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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2012-11-27

We voted in a new chart, because the old one had became far to easy except for the few roll. Ex 10 peasants, vampire, and Orc horde w/ gobos and splash of ogre.

I have seen that if the country has ten+ people they win against 90% of what they fight on the old and new charts.
We added the "only affected by" to some of the monsters. Ex dragons (magic) and liches (only holy)
As well as structures. And both of those adds I have on seen come up on a roll twice. One dragon against 20+ guys, and they only had one magic weapon.
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fingers630
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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by fingers630 » 2012-11-27

Yup even a well prepared force can make mince meat out of a dragon or lich. I fought against Mordom as a Lich, was tackled and held for 10 holy weapons to kill me. I fought with Nurgle vs a White Dragon. I cast pro ice on Braxus, gave him my enchanted holy sword, and pouched growth on him. He killed it in about 15 seconds while the rest of us sat around and had tea.

Kindred's lame ass banner and Aquilonia's Undead Slayers guild makes Undead rolls a joke. Same with the Goblin slayers guild and Giant Slayers guild. People never learn their lesson and give out what seem like cool prizes, that have a huge impact on landsearches.

Now if these prizes had an expiration date.....
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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-11-27

Should we add "heroic" status to certain NPC's? IE they cannot be snared or grappled?
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Sir Sturmbjorne
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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by Sir Sturmbjorne » 2012-11-29

Andor,
From what I've seen over the past 6 years is about a 95% success rate for land searches.
Did your group take the new scouting rules for the 15th and 25th lvl Rangers that Darkon added a few years ago? That helps with being able to tell how many folks we need to bring.
I think success should occur for each country at least 70% of the time to not be too disparaging.

One idea that is sortof cheating is for the Land Marshal to edit the land searches as they are roll if he feels that the country fighting them has no chance of winning. (example: Newly declared country with 4 unarmored newbies rolls a chromatic dragon... maybe fudge it and say they got a horde of orcs/goblins/undead... something they MIGHT have a chance with, but isnt necessarily a "gimme" fight.)

It seems that you might already be doing this ^^
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Saris Fey-Branche
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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by Saris Fey-Branche » 2012-12-02

"newly declared country with 4 unarmored newbies rolls a chromatic dragon..."

I treat this much more as an IC issue. The newly declared country with 4 newbies should know damn well to stick to their own land until such time as they are prepared to venture forth into the great unknown. They can always merc out. Otherwise they're like welfare parents continuously popping out children. Still, I respect that it is the LM's discretion.

Would not at all oppose making land searches even more difficult, although I think the recent proposal was a good step in the right direction.
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fingers630
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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by fingers630 » 2012-12-03

Yep i agree with the Chosen Blood (holy * did I just say that? =P)

If you roll up on a Dragon with 4 low players, it is the perfect opportunity to RP with other nations of the Realm, make friends, and lead an invasion back after it.

NK fought a Hydra today. They hired myself and Bloody Axe to help kill it.
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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by Artex » 2012-12-03

I once played an Owlbear Against old Mordom in a Land Search. I still have lumps in uncomfortable places. I've fought in a few land searches since I've been back in the game, and to be honest I haven't noticed a huge change from the old list to the new list (or maybe I always fought is * rolled LS I'll go with that).

Today I Murdered a Lot of Peasants, Brigands, and Watched a Hydra get basically annihilated (tackled to the ground and murdered). I still Think Land Searches are on Easy mode.

Of course If i Could make the Charts I'd shoot for the win percentage more like 40%. Why should it be 70%? SHouldn't something that helps your country grow be a little more difficult?

Hell I think we should have the possibility of having to fight waves of enemies. (You rolled 6 waves of Zombies... good luck with that, hope you have healers)

This probably comes from me hating 2 teams, line up, do it again. I would love long epic Land searches that required thought and tactics.

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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by Saris Fey-Branche » 2012-12-03

" and Watched a Hydra get basically annihilated (tackled to the ground and murdered"

As one(of three) who played the annihilated Hydra in question, I have to say that NK really went all out for their land search. Even with Kindred and BA backing them, I was starting to doubt that they would win. Tackling me with a giant-sized fighter in plate was definitely the right call.

Still think land searches should be a bit more difficult, but countries who go to efforts to ensure victory should be given their props.
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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by fingers630 » 2012-12-03

Yup we sent a giant growthed gaseous assassin with a magic dagger after one of the beasts, and a giant growthed fighter in full plate after another , and that was after hitting it with 2 fireballs.
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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by Artex » 2012-12-03

Not at all taking anything away from NK.

Although The Unlimited range of the Hydra heads from the rest of the body is another issue lol.

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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2012-12-03

I think large creatures (see: giant-sized) shouldn't be able to be grappled. Period.

And I think, as for the original question, 65% sounds like a good amount.

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fingers630
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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by fingers630 » 2012-12-03

Yeah I agree but at least it was a GIANT that grappled the thing.
As far as the unlimited range goes, I always "Suggest" that the heads stay semi close when fighting, but nothing short of tying someone together (completely unsafe) can guarantee that.

besides, just think of it as a giant anime style hyrda where they heads shoot like 100ft.
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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by Snudge » 2012-12-03

The most epic monsters that countries have faced on the field so far for 2012 ,are as follows in order of epicness

Kindred- Ancient Red Dragon Lair(25% Chance to salvage a castle at 1/2 price)
Northern Kingdoms- Vampire Lord & 3 Thralls(+30), Hydra(+30), Flesh Golem(+25),
New Mordom- Lich(+20), Adult Blue Dragon(+15)
Nurgle- Lich(+20), Adult White Dragon (+15), Banshee X2 (+15)
Elidor- 3 Trolls (+15)
AQ- Lich X2(+20), Banshee (+15)

AQ is last because the undead slayers guild stomps undead
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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2012-12-03

Hey Potter, how many countries lost LS this year and how may times?
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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by Solomon Kane » 2012-12-03

Would it be possible to perhaps do a little rp with the intelligent NPCs one may face in a land search? I love to fight as much as the next guy, but I would like more opportunities to RP.... just my 2 copper pieces....
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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2012-12-03

Solomon Kane wrote:Would it be possible to perhaps do a little rp with the intelligent NPCs one may face in a land search? I love to fight as much as the next guy, but I would like more opportunities to RP.... just my 2 copper pieces....

Yes.

People have paid brigands and peasants to leave in the past, that I am aware of.

And I once played a first-level assassin, threw my surcoat off, picked up a tiny spear and ran across yelling "AN INVADING ARMY IS COMING" and joined a group of peasants with pole arms, disguising as them...

Then stabbed them all in the back.

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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by Sir Sturmbjorne » 2012-12-03

Saris Fey-Branche wrote:"newly declared country with 4 unarmored newbies rolls a chromatic dragon..."

I treat this much more as an IC issue. The newly declared country with 4 newbies should know damn well to stick to their own land until such time as they are prepared to venture forth into the great unknown. They can always merc out. Otherwise they're like welfare parents continuously popping out children. Still, I respect that it is the LM's discretion.

Would not at all oppose making land searches even more difficult, although I think the recent proposal was a good step in the right direction.


Let's get back on topic with this thread people.

We are not talking about how to improve the Land Search Charts or anything of the sort, but rather we should be giving opinions or ideas to Andor to help his club out, which seems to be having some trouble with the monsters they are fighting.
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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by Lord Cailen Sendor » 2012-12-03

One option is the following...

Stop scouting that spot and design an adventure around clearing that hex of land.
Scout a different spot next time till either you gain the resources to clear out what is there or an adventure is run that is successful clears the spot.

:)
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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by Solomon Kane » 2012-12-03

Amazing_Iltztafein wrote:
Solomon Kane wrote:Would it be possible to perhaps do a little rp with the intelligent NPCs one may face in a land search? I love to fight as much as the next guy, but I would like more opportunities to RP.... just my 2 copper pieces....

Yes.

People have paid brigands and peasants to leave in the past, that I am aware of.

And I once played a first-level assassin, threw my surcoat off, picked up a tiny spear and ran across yelling "AN INVADING ARMY IS COMING" and joined a group of peasants with pole arms, disguising as them...

Then stabbed them all in the back.



Well done milord......well done.....

This is exactly the type of stuff I would love to see, and do.........
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Re: Best success % for landsearches?

Post by Saris Fey-Branche » 2012-12-03

Wulfvin Sturmbjorne wrote:We are not talking about how to improve the Land Search Charts or anything of the sort, but rather we should be giving opinions or ideas to Andor to help his club out, which seems to be having some trouble with the monsters they are fighting.


I was completely on topic. Andor stated in the original post that he suspects the ideal formula is a derivative, which means more constants and less undefined variables. This, I support. Country status should not be a variable in the land search equation.
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