To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

General chatter about the Club and Realm of Darkon
LordTyrantCort
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To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2013-02-13

So i have been going through the rulebook and looking at rules and the way they are written.
first one..... Cross guards/Quillions:
All long and short swords must have quillions, which is a crossbar of foam between the sword's blade and its handle.
does this fail a weapon? Magistrate, should i make them put "foam" between blade and handle
i will put more up as i find them

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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by fingers630 » 2013-02-13

what else would they make quillions out of?
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LordTyrantCort
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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2013-02-13

I have seen Duct Tape, Thom. and i know there was an arguement within the last year about this exact rule.
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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-02-13

Technically, failure to have a crossbar of foam would make a 'white' weapon a 'yellow' weapon.
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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by fingers630 » 2013-02-13

odd. ive always just assumed people would be smart enough to use foam LOL. if that is the rule as written in the book, Id say that tape quillions fail.
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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by Sir Orlffson » 2013-02-13

Some people build their foam quillions, on the sword blade. Not in between. Is that against the rules as written?
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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-02-14

Sir Orlffson wrote:Some people build their foam quillions, on the sword blade. Not in between. Is that against the rules as written?


No, it's not against the rules as written. The rulebook specifically defines quillions as "a crossbar of foam between the sword's blade and its handle". It does not venture into methods of construction or their shape. Basket-hilts, tsuba, cross-guards, etc. are all perfectly fine.
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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by Lord Dubh » 2013-02-14

I will re-iterate Slaters comments from the NC meeting.

I do not give a * how something is constructed, the only thing I ask is "is it safe" We need to get away from these specifics in certain construction aspects.
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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-02-14

First test - Is it safe?
Second test - Does it look good?

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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-02-14

As they are not for safety, and not functional unless made larger than an inch or more (and we have no basis for regulating them as we allow basket and katana styles), tape representations of quillions should be allowed and the wording changed. I personally stand by that a bar and sword look the same so the tape color should be what matters until we make flat a sword and round a club... This is one of the dumbest rules we have.

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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by jayjay » 2013-02-14

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:As they are not for safety, and not functional unless made larger than an inch or more (and we have no basis for regulating them as we allow basket and katana styles), tape representations of quillions should be allowed and the wording changed. I personally stand by that a bar and sword look the same so the tape color should be what matters until we make flat a sword and round a club... This is one of the dumbest rules we have.

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thrush speaks truth. quillions are a small thing on a whole sword and a crappy visual for seeing if it's doing white or yellow. just require one inch tape strips on the base of the blade. the contrast of white on black or yellow on black would be much easier to see.
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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-02-15

Or round = yellow, flat = white... ya know, clubs and blades? We've been round and round about this, and "bars" are a crap meta game tactic by clerics who wanna use swords. In my ever so humble opinion... of course.

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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by fingers630 » 2013-02-15

so what should clerics use since flails are cheesey and bars are meta game? LOL * clubs and hammers. have you ever fought with a darkon hammer? worst weapon ever

until clerics are given white swords, up with bars!!
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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-02-15

On topic - Rules are rules. Follow them until they are changed.

Off topic - I take full credit and blame for 'bars'. They were a reaction to maces, clubs, and hammers being grossly unwieldy in the very early years of Darkon. It wasn't an issue with meta-gaming so much as an issue with safe, wield-able weapons. Weapon technology has grown significantly since that time and 'clubs' can now be made safely without becoming unwieldy. I wouldn't be heartbroken by seeing 'sword-bars' removed from the field. (But I also don't see a pressing reason to remove them.)
Last edited by Sir Aethilgar on 2013-02-15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by fingers630 » 2013-02-15

The problem is Darkon is stuck on 1985 version of D&D when it comes to clerics as far as only using bludgeoning weapons. Givem smaller shields or lesser armor and let them use swords and bars are a thing of the past.

Even with "superior technology" most non chained yellow weapons suck, and while yes you could make a small ass "faster" club, it is stil a club, and most clerics dont roleplay cavemen.
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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-02-15

On 'clubs'... it's all a matter of opinion and role-play. One person's caveman-esque club is another person's cudgel, truncheon, baton, bludgeon, bo, bat, etc, etc, Club is just a general term under which all such weapons are labelled. Don't get hung up on labels.

But all that is beside the point... which is foam cross-guards. Currently you have to have one on a sword.
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Amazing_Iltztafein
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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2013-02-15

Chained yellow has been taken down a notch anyway. I mean, the head now takes the same amount of hits as any other location, armor-wise.

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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by mardux zulammar » 2013-02-15

After reading all of the comments and the original post, a few things come to mind.

1: I took the original question as does the crossbar have to be "between" the blade and handle. Not does the cross bar have to be made of foam. But if you ask the book both questions and follow the rules to the letter, I'd have to say that the crossbar has to be both made of foam and in between blade and handle (not on the handle as some of the newer swords have been seen with, may not be the intent) or technically the weapon should fail.

2: the whole bars being a metagame sword tactic thing. Its been my understanding from what I've been told for 10+ years of playing that the reason people use bars instead of clubs is because bars aren't destroyed by warpwood whereas clubs are. I personally don't care about that fact and greatly prefer clubs (as I've never been hit with warpwood and have seen it thrown maybe 3-4 times in my career) but until we make clubs able to have less than 3" dimensions I'm going to stick with my bar.

3: I completely agree with Thrush about quillions being a poor in combat representation of white vs yellow and will fully support the proposal (if one is ever written) to just make round = yellow and flat = white.
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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by shroom2021 » 2013-02-15

mardux zulammar wrote:After reading all of the comments and the original post, a few things come to mind.

1: I took the original question as does the crossbar have to be "between" the blade and handle. Not does the cross bar have to be made of foam. But if you ask the book both questions and follow the rules to the letter, I'd have to say that the crossbar has to be both made of foam and in between blade and handle (not on the handle as some of the newer swords have been seen with, may not be the intent) or technically the weapon should fail.


Where exactly is the part of the sword that is "between" the blade and handle? If you add your cross guard, anything between the cross guard and the pommel cannot be used as a striking surface. Seems simple enough.

If I were to apply the cross guard on my weapon at the top of my handle directly beneath the blade of my sword will that fail?
If I apply the cross guard at the bottom of my blade directly above my handle does that fail?

This should be obvious, but from what I have seen on the boards you cannot leave any grey areas.

I think it would be better written as follows:

Old: "All long and short swords must have quillions, which is a crossbar of foam between the sword's blade and its handle. "

New: "All long and short swords must have quillions, which is a crossbar of foam/plasti-dip above the point at which the sword is held."

Since plasti-dip is legal in Darkon now, we should probably add that in there to avoid future confusion.

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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by jayjay » 2013-02-16

Amazing_Iltztafein wrote:Chained yellow has been taken down a notch anyway. I mean, the head now takes the same amount of hits as any other location, armor-wise.



they still take about zero skill to use.
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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by fingers630 » 2013-02-16

you mean like tower shields? :)
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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by jayjay » 2013-02-16

fingers630 wrote:you mean like tower shields? :)


yup, them too.
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Amazing_Iltztafein
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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2013-02-17

And black weapons.
And arrows.

And anything else that is easy to kill with.

In fact, you're only awesome and not a wuss if you use a club to kill everything.

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Sir Tyriel Firebrand
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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2013-02-18

I like the way you catch on Iltz. :)
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Re: To the realm, about some of these rules im seeing...

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-02-19

fingers630 wrote:so what should clerics use since flails are cheesey and bars are meta game? LOL * clubs and hammers. have you ever fought with a darkon hammer? worst weapon ever

until clerics are given white swords, up with bars!!


The most deadly weapon in all of foam fighting: an omni blade... or bat. Duh. Man, when you WANT to be slow, you sure can be. lol

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