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Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-10
by Sir Caetrel
http://www.darkon.org/Bellum_Aeternus/

DO IT.

And, the Feast is Pre-Reg only. So if you like food, really do it.

It is 5 bucks cheaper to pre-reg as well.

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-10
by mardux zulammar
When will prereg close?

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-10
by Zentor
You still havent updated that page to make it clear the feast is for 18 and over. No one under 18 allowed.

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-10
by fingers630
FUUUUUU 16 year olds! You are cool enough to play our game but not eat our foods!

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-10
by Zentor
I know, right? Means most, if not all, of Minathlan wont be eating at the feast.

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-11
by Sir Caetrel
Pre-reg deadline is August 3rd. You will also be able to pre-reg at Darkon events in cash, from now until then.

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-11
by Amazing_Iltztafein
There must be strippers at the feast.

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-11
by fingers630
Damn right. How many performances you want me to have?

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-13
by Amazing_Iltztafein
That wasn't a request, Thom, but an exclamation. You know, because it's 18+. Must be the reason.

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-13
by Inox
I still find it goofy that we're grousing about 16 year olds being able to attend things like overnight events and feasts with alcoholic beverages.

Yes, some of us (myself included) started well under 18. However, it was an entirely different game.

● When I joined, the president was 19, and the oldest guy was 23. People made grandpa jokes about him. The game was basically a bunch of teens, whereas now the average age is probably pushing 30.
● We had no insurance, corporate status, cash resources to speak of, etc.
● The rulebook was more of a pamphlet, and there was NO Senate, EB/BoD, or NC.
● Feast didn't even exist for the first couple of years, and when it did, it was a potlock in an American Legion Hall w/o booze.
● We used ridiculously unsafe blue foam weapons that often didn't even have covers.
● There were maybe 40 of us on a really good day.
● There were no land rules, no Darkon coins, and we kept records in a recipe box, on index cards.

So really, when people start bellyaching about how we got to start young, and why shouldn't kids now, they're talking apples & oranges.

Campouts and Feasts are events with drinking and adult behavior. Minors do not belong there if we care about the game's legal standing.

The situations that can occur when you have people consuming alcohol and otherwise acting out are far, far more legally significant when they involve people who are minors under the law. Something totally legal for those 18+ or 21+ can become a crime in and of itself because minors are present. Let's not be selfish & short-sighted, Darkon.

In a perfect world, yeah, I'd love to see people out there having fun (and beers) as soon as they seemed old enough to handle it. That's not the society we live in, and putting the game at significant risk to be all-inclusive is among the dumber things, ever.

As an attorney, I strongly advise against minors being allowed at events where drinking is also permitted, and/or where there are overnight stays. It's bad enough they're on the field with the flimsy protection of a waiver, but good lord we're taking some risks if we let them into other things, too.

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-13
by Thrush Svartehjertet
Ragnarok is the largest foam fighting event in the United States, they went 18 and over about 4 years ago. Anyone under the age of 18 must have their legal guardian (with ALL the paperwork that proves it) ON SITE with them (like, if the guardian goes to Walmart, the minor leaves too).

There is a precedent for this. Bellum Aeternus is a multi-day, camping, alcohol allowing event. Making it 18 and over makes sense to a large portion of the foam fighting community in the United States, but it is far from unanimous.

Just fyi... to further discussion.


Thrush
berserk

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-14
by Sir Aethilgar
-Inox- wrote:Campouts and Feasts are events with drinking and adult behavior. Minors do not belong there if we care about the game's legal standing.


That is one way of looking at it.

The other is that perhaps this new 'adult behavior' doesn't belong at a wargaming event.

What is transpiring at Darkon camping events that we need to be concerned about Darkon's legal standing in the event a 16 or 17 year old is exposed to it? Drugs? Illegal in the states we play. Nudity? Illegal in public places (like State Parks). What else?

While the impact minors have on Darkon is certainly a valid concern; we should spend equal concern on any behavior that might tarnish Darkon's reputation. After all (and while we are fondly remembering the past); how many parks are we no longer welcome in due to the actions of a handful of players?

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-14
by Kobalos
Sir Aethilgar wrote:The other [viewpoint] is that perhaps this new 'adult behavior' doesn't belong at a wargaming event.

What is transpiring at Darkon camping events that we need to be concerned about Darkon's legal standing in the event a 16 or 17 year old is exposed to it? Drugs? Illegal in the states we play. Nudity? Illegal in public places (like State Parks). What else?


The problem is that there is a huge jump in consequences when minors are involved. For example, the current theme of the Bellum Aeturnus Feast is a Bacchanal. If shenanigans ensue and someone (Fingers?) unleashes a boob, yeah, that's nudity in a state park. I doubt the world will crash down on our ears for that. But, if there are reports that we were exposing (heh) minors to nudity, then we have another set of problems.

Ditto for the alcohol. Say there's a slip-up of some sort and a 19-year-old gets his hands on a beer. Well, that person is a legal adult, and the onus is as much on him as on us. If the same thing happens with a 16-year-old? We're in deep doodoo.

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-14
by Calus
The real problem is where there are 16 year olds there will be loud Bieber music. And that doesn't sit well with me.

Am I the only one concerned about this? C'mon people..

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-15
by fingers630
Kobalos wrote:
Sir Aethilgar wrote:The other [viewpoint] is that perhaps this new 'adult behavior' doesn't belong at a wargaming event.

What is transpiring at Darkon camping events that we need to be concerned about Darkon's legal standing in the event a 16 or 17 year old is exposed to it? Drugs? Illegal in the states we play. Nudity? Illegal in public places (like State Parks). What else?


The problem is that there is a huge jump in consequences when minors are involved. For example, the current theme of the Bellum Aeturnus Feast is a Bacchanal. If shenanigans ensue and someone (Fingers?) unleashes a boob, yeah, that's nudity in a state park. I doubt the world will crash down on our ears for that. But, if there are reports that we were exposing (heh) minors to nudity, then we have another set of problems.

Ditto for the alcohol. Say there's a slip-up of some sort and a 19-year-old gets his hands on a beer. Well, that person is a legal adult, and the onus is as much on him as on us. If the same thing happens with a 16-year-old? We're in deep doodoo.



Pretty sure I can legally expose my boobs. it may be immoral but not illegal.

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-15
by jayjay
amtgard events allow under 18. when you check in you show ID and get a wrist band. one color for under 18, one for 18 - 21, and a third for 21+. if you get caught doing something that you can't legally do, you get kicked off site, along with everyone that was in the car with you. back before wrist bands there were a fair amount of problems, but i don't hear about them that much anymore.

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-15
by fingers630
jayjay wrote:amtgard events allow under 18. when you check in you show ID and get a wrist band. one color for under 18, one for 18 - 21, and a third for 21+. if you get caught doing something that you can't legally do, you get kicked off site, along with everyone that was in the car with you. back before wrist bands there were a fair amount of problems, but i don't hear about them that much anymore.



I fully support this idea. No wristband? Sent home, suspended 1 event. If our parental consent forms aren't protecting us from the legal ramifications of having 16yr olds exposed to possible swear words, nudity and people smoking pot, why do we even have them?

Again, Ive heard of 0 issues with 16 year olds at any Darkon Campout ever. Did I miss something that spawned the recent outcry, or are old people just being old? "Yeah I used to come when I was 9, but you kids cant wait til your 25!!"

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-16
by Sir Aethilgar
fingers630 wrote:
jayjay wrote:amtgard events allow under 18. when you check in you show ID and get a wrist band. one color for under 18, one for 18 - 21, and a third for 21+. if you get caught doing something that you can't legally do, you get kicked off site, along with everyone that was in the car with you. back before wrist bands there were a fair amount of problems, but i don't hear about them that much anymore.



I fully support this idea. No wristband? Sent home, suspended 1 event. If our parental consent forms aren't protecting us from the legal ramifications of having 16yr olds exposed to possible swear words, nudity and people smoking pot, why do we even have them?

Again, Ive heard of 0 issues with 16 year olds at any Darkon Campout ever. Did I miss something that spawned the recent outcry, or are old people just being old? "Yeah I used to come when I was 9, but you kids cant wait til your 25!!"


I concur. And the only 'outcry' I've heard thus far is 'we want to get drunk and naked at Darkon, best not let the kids see us being stupid or we could get in trouble'.

As a side note; the onus is on the person passing out beer or exposing themselves publicly not to do so where the public or minors will be involved. After all, it would be their actions that end up getting us booted from yet another park... and/or their name on the police arrest report for contributing to the delinquency of a minor. If you can't handle your booze without getting naked... don't drink at a Darkon event; end of story. Having a feast theme of a Bacchanal is zero excuse to exposing Darkon to such risks.

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-16
by Inox
fingers630 wrote:Again, Ive heard of 0 issues with 16 year olds at any Darkon Campout ever. Did I miss something that spawned the recent outcry, or are old people just being old? "Yeah I used to come when I was 9, but you kids cant wait til your 25!!"


We only really need one incident to really cause a lot of problems. The way Darkon is, it's a "when", not an "if".

Apparently what you missed was my post, so I will summarize in tl;dr format: We aren't a bunch of teenagers informally running battle games out of our parents' basements. We're a corporation with insurance, a board, assets, etc., and if we expect to be able maintain that and to grow the game for the future, we can't continue to take dumb risks.

I know you're anxious to get your teenage son on the field, but the rest of us can't be held hostage to that.

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-16
by Inox
Sir Aethilgar wrote:I concur. And the only 'outcry' I've heard thus far is 'we want to get drunk and naked at Darkon, best not let the kids see us being stupid or we could get in trouble'.


I don't get drunk or naked at Darkon, nor do I want to. However, it's completely foolish to think that some people won't, since it's been happening steadily from 1986 to the current day.

The issue is that one day, we're going to step on a legal landmine, and it will almost certainly end up being an issue involving a minor.

I appreciate that your country contains more than a few under 18 people, but again, this is for the good of the game.

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-16
by Sir Aethilgar
-Inox- wrote: I appreciate that your country contains more than a few under 18 people, but again, this is for the good of the game.


Is the problem that we have minors playing? Or is the problem that people are getting drunk and naked at events?

I would venture to say that failing to police the problem isn't for the good of the game. Do you disagree?

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-17
by Snudge
We're sort of derailing this thread. I've put up a proposal for discussion regarding identifying underage individuals during overnight events. Please continue the discussion there =)

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=970

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-17
by Inox
Sir Aethilgar wrote:
-Inox- wrote: I appreciate that your country contains more than a few under 18 people, but again, this is for the good of the game.


Is the problem that we have minors playing? Or is the problem that people are getting drunk and naked at events?

I would venture to say that failing to police the problem isn't for the good of the game. Do you disagree?


People getting drunk is fine. Minors getting drunk is a huge problem.

People getting naked with each other may be fine. People getting naked with minors is a huge problem.

Minors even being *present* for some things may be a huge problem, and you aren't going to lock down the above behaviors without involving way too much invasive oversight.

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-19
by Calus
Do we get a battle credit for each day of fighting?

Re: Bellum Aeternus II Pre-Registration

Posted: 2013-06-19
by Sir Tyriel Firebrand
yes