How interesting

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Snudge
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How interesting

Post by Snudge » 2013-05-05

it was conveyed to me from one of the many in my employ that the commoner's tourney was today.
What struck me as interesting is that the commoner's tourney five man team was won by an all noble team.
Isn't it enough that you people have the rank and privilege, why must you ruin the lives of the common man by taking their opportunities for achievements from them. Not a very honorable act in my opinion, but fortunately these are only the words of an orc of no birth.
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fingers630
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Re: How interesting

Post by fingers630 » 2013-05-05

As such, all monies donated today that were to grace the pockets of the 5 man team have been redistributed and will be set aside for another purpose later this year. I have no problem with Nobles participating in the 5 man fight, as understood it was supposed to be separate from the rest of the Tourney, but Nobles do not need more gold.

Perhaps next year we can have a common 5 man tourney on Commoners day, and a tourney open to all members of the Realm during another time.
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Re: How interesting

Post by Inox » 2013-05-05

It has long been the way of the Realm that the 5-man competitions are open to all.

Also notable: Every team we faced today had at least one Noble, if not more than one. Any of their victories would have involved a Noble win.

This is beside the entire rest of the competition today barring all members of Nobility.

Most troubling, though, is that in your missive, you insult all of the commoners who fought today, by casting it as if they had no chance to win because they were not Noble. ...as if it were a fait accompli, a thing akin to snatching food from a small child. That seems absurd to me.

You might recall that Thorsson, who won the last Commoners' Tourney, recently won the right to fight in the Noble ring, and was victorious there as well.

I also find it interesting that Fingers muses on the idea of a commoners' 5-man tourney, when he fielded with a team that was 3/5 Noble.

You both do yourselves ill with your chosen words.
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Sir Sturmbjorne
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Re: How interesting

Post by Sir Sturmbjorne » 2013-05-05

Well said Count Inox.
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Re: How interesting

Post by Gor Strayhorn » 2013-05-05

What greater glory than to test your steel against the realm's best.
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Re: How interesting

Post by fingers630 » 2013-05-05

I also find it interesting that Fingers muses on the idea of a commoners' 5-man tourney, when he fielded with a team that was 3/5 Noble.


I have recopied my message good Count as your eyesight must be failing you on your Naming Day :)

I have no problem with Nobles participating in the 5 man fight, as understood it was supposed to be separate from the rest of the Tourney, but Nobles do not need more gold.


As I stated, I have no issue with the nobles participating today, as Sir Kai announced the fight as such. HOWEVER, IN THE FUTURE, IF THERE IS A COMMONER'S TOURNEY DAY, ID PREFER ALL EVENTS TO BE FOR THE COMMONERS.

better?

Love Fingers
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Re: How interesting

Post by Snudge » 2013-05-05

It is my opinion that any nobles who took the field, including those in my country have done themselves and those of no title a disservice. The point remains that by name the commoner's tourney ought to be for the best commoners to showcase their skill against other commoners
Sir Thorsten being held as an example, he won the commoner's tourney as a commoner. That he then went and won glory for himself in the noble ring bears no relation to my current musings, aside from his, like other nobles, participation in the days events.

As for insulting the commoners, I surely am not. I do not suggest they did not win on the field of battle today for lack of effort, or desire. What I am clearly stating is that in a test of arms they lost, but not to combatants of their own standing. Rather to those with the time, money and title to persue such interests. I believe you my good sir inox were among those who claimed victory for the nobles as a member of the winning team.

I do not think it is so much to suggest, or at the very least comment upon; the fact that the commoners have a day, a tournament, that should be wholly devoted to them. Categorized by no aggrandizement of nobles. There was event a noble ring fight today or so I'm told. I do not begrudge the nobles of the realm these trials by combat, I merely suggest you confine all such activities to a day more befitting of a noble. You have yours, leave us ours.
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Lord Valfryn
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Re: How interesting

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-05-06

Always asking for more. The Nobles of the Realm grant guidance and often bleed defense against many of the perils that would destroy the vulgar masses, and still you gripe over an event designed to find the finest five man unit in ALL of Darkon.

What is evident here is the difference in methods. I accept defeat, and know what I must aspire to in order to gain victory. The five man bout that I lost this day was one of the better fights that I had been in all year. I do not attempt to change the values of the challenge.

I will also say this, the Nobles who fought today did so because we revel in combat and competition. We did not lie, cheat or coerce our way into the lists, we were invited. I would also suggest taking issue with the maester of the next tourney if you truly would like to see Nobles refused admittance. Making public your dissatisfaction is a bit telling- for if this was an honest gripe, one of principal, it would have been voiced prior to the initiation of the challenge. Afterwards, publicly serves only to undermine the victory of those who rightfully won it. To undermine a victory is undignified and weak.
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Re: How interesting

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-05-06

Lord Valfryn wrote:Always asking for more. The Nobles of the Realm grant guidance and often bleed defense against many of the perils that would destroy the vulgar masses, ...


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... ahem.



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Re: How interesting

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-05-06

nope...


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...


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Inox
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Re: How interesting

Post by Inox » 2013-05-06

fingers630 wrote:As I stated, I have no issue with the nobles participating today, as Sir Kai announced the fight as such. HOWEVER, IN THE FUTURE, IF THERE IS A COMMONER'S TOURNEY DAY, ID PREFER ALL EVENTS TO BE FOR THE COMMONERS.

better?

Love Fingers


Only more evasive, really. You know full well that 5-man, while held on the same day as the Commoner's Tourney, is historically open for all.

Therefore, by witholding monies specifically collected as a purse for the winning 5-man team, on the grounds that we are Noble, you dishonor yourself. As I said, all the teams which we faced had at least one Noble. Your own team was 3/5 Noble. Would all the others have gone unpaid as well? Could you have not stipulated your requirement beforehand, if so? This reeks of petty spite.

Also, by assuming title automatically conveys gold, you betray your ignorance of the matter. You, who interestingly live in one of the most Noble-populated and wealthiest nations in the Realm, even after its coffers were used rather liberally by King Cailen.

I am curious, though. How much of a purse were we talking?
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Re: How interesting

Post by Occultus » 2013-05-06

Perhaps we "commoners" should simply hold our own tournament, without the permission or oversight of "nobles"?! A "noble" ran this tournament, and as such, it was never truly in our hands.

If we want our own tournament, we should do it ourselves and make our own rules.

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Inox
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Re: How interesting

Post by Inox » 2013-05-06

Snudge wrote:It is my opinion that any nobles who took the field, including those in my country have done themselves and those of no title a disservice. The point remains that by name the commoner's tourney ought to be for the best commoners to showcase their skill against other commoners


...except that this has not historically reflected the point or the roster of the 5-man event. What you want is something entirely new.

Snudge wrote:Sir Thorsten being held as an example, he won the commoner's tourney as a commoner. That he then went and won glory for himself in the noble ring bears no relation to my current musings, aside from his, like other nobles, participation in the days events.

As for insulting the commoners, I surely am not. I do not suggest they did not win on the field of battle today for lack of effort, or desire. What I am clearly stating is that in a test of arms they lost, but not to combatants of their own standing. Rather to those with the time, money and title to persue such interests. I believe you my good sir inox were among those who claimed victory for the nobles as a member of the winning team.


It is almost awe-inspiring how you can restate the same poorly-reasoned argument and remain impervious to reason.

A Noble title does not convey strength of arm or skill of hand. Anyone can choose to pursue the arts of war and martial dominion. Anyone can excel, have they the heart and will to do so.

By claiming that Nobles are not "combatants of their own standing" for the Commoners is precisely the insult I explained above. It demeans them.

Approximately half of the roster of the Warriors' Guild is Commoners. Are they unfit to face Nobles?
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Re: How interesting

Post by fingers630 » 2013-05-06

I called for donations from Nobles to reward the commoners of the Realm. As no such participants on the winning teams were common, none shall be rewarded. I show no spite as I would hold the same stipulation for any team with a Noble on it, including my own.

As far as honor, I am an admitted Necromance and Assassin of the Realm, lol, I care not what others perceive of me. I have fufilled my promise of gathering coin from the Nobles (as well as myself, who carries no Royal Title) and distributing it to the Common Winners of the Tournament.

255gp was collected.

I indeed so propose that next year, the Commoner's Tournament be open only to those who do not bear a Royal Title in the Realm. It solves all issues of Nobles "giving" back to the people by throwing an event for them, and then taking their gold and chairs.

FTR
Last edited by fingers630 on 2013-05-06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How interesting

Post by Kobalos » 2013-05-06

Again, the 5-(wo-?)Man Team contest is not actually part of the Commoner's Tourney. Neither was the Archery Contest yesterday.

I do suggest, to make that clear, that the 5-Man Teams be held on a different day. The Commoner's Tourney takes long enough anyway ;)
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Re: How interesting

Post by Pope Faleris I » 2013-05-06

These monies can always be donated to the Church, my Lords. The orphans of war and scourge are still pouring in from all over the countrysides.

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Re: How interesting

Post by Inox » 2013-05-07

fingers630 wrote:I called for donations from Nobles to reward the commoners of the Realm. As no such participants on the winning teams were common, none shall be rewarded. I show no spite as I would hold the same stipulation for any team with a Noble on it, including my own.


As I said above, ALL the teams we faced had at least one Noble. Would you not pay the team, then, or just not the Noble members? If you had won, would you have split the entire pot with Cas?

Your initial post was not in any way clear that Nobles could not take the pot, merely that you were calling for Nobles to contribute to it.

You could also have decided to give the pot to the non-Noble members of the winning country, or to the country coffers. Withholding the monies based on title is petty and, yes, reeks of spite.

fingers630 wrote:As far as honor, I am an admitted Necromance and Assassin of the Realm, lol, I care not what others perceive of me. I have fufilled my promise of gathering coin from the Nobles (as well as myself, who carries no Royal Title) and distributing it to the Common Winners of the Tournament.


I do not wish to hear of your "Necromance". You may shrug your shoulders at the concept of honor, but in faling to deal honorably, you debase yourself and make argument against your recognition as a person of worth.

fingers630 wrote:255gp was collected.


Duly noted.

fingers630 wrote:I indeed so propose that next year, the Commoner's Tournament be open only to those who do not bear a Royal Title in the Realm. It solves all issues of Nobles "giving" back to the people by throwing an event for them, and then taking their gold and chairs.

FTR


You seem to be confused. The 5-man is not historically part of the events restricted to Commoners. As such, the chairs are not their chairs; they're the victors' chairs, regardless of status.

Happily, Countess Fyxe and I will be sitting comfortably on our chairs, since I now have two. I suppose you can sit on your sack of gold. Enjoy it while and if you can.
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Re: How interesting

Post by fingers630 » 2013-05-07

My sack of gold? You misunderstand good Count, this money is not mine, and as I stated I would have split no money with anyone had our team won. I do not do things in the Realm to solely line my own pockets, as thread bare as they may be. The coin raised was for commoner's, no team of commoner's won, therefore it will not be paid out.

Should those who donated wish a refund of their coin, I will happily give it and they can do with it as they please. Nobles get enough in this Realm, they don't need anything more.

As I already stated, I will be working on next year's commoner's tournament, run by commoners, for commoners. No such confusion will arise as Nobles will not be participating. Nobles are welcome to watch, from their fancy chairs, drinking their fancy wine, and being fanned by their servants.

You seem overly concerned with a few gold coins good Count, and the only noble complaining about not being paid to win a tournament your team was the clear favorite to win. If you are indeed as hard pressed for it as you seem to be, Im sure we could take a collection up for you. Perhaps it will improve my image and make me, how you say, a "person of worth".

Until we meet in shadows
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Re: How interesting

Post by Inox » 2013-05-07

fingers630 wrote:Nobles get enough in this Realm, they don't need anything more.


What exactly is it that we get, other than an acknowledgement of status? I am not exactly being carried about in a palanquin, while servants fetch me sacks of tax monies cruelly levied from peasants.

I have no wealth, and no income unless I kill something and take its gold. Due to the extreme dearth of treasure chests in dungeons these days, one certainly can't rely on a delver's life to make ends meet.

fingers630 wrote:You seem overly concerned with a few gold coins good Count, and the only noble complaining about not being paid to win a tournament your team was the clear favorite to win.


How is that relevant? We should be penalized somehow for putting together an effective team? Your spite is again showing.

fingers630 wrote:If you are indeed as hard pressed for it as you seem to be, Im sure we could take a collection up for you. Perhaps it will improve my image and make me, how you say, a "person of worth".


I think I will go with this option: If you do not pay our team, our Commoners, or our country coffers, I will put you down as owing No Quarter! 255gp. I will then endeavor find some way to set the balance right; to make us whole, as they say.

At the very least, we are due 255gp worth of entertainment, which I am willing to take in Schadenfreude.
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Re: How interesting

Post by Kai Firebrand » 2013-05-07

I find it amusing that the nobles were asked to put that purse together, the 5 chairs were made by a noble of the realm, and each individual prize as well as the prize for the champion was made by a noble of the realm, and the entire event a noble has given his time ( and effort in ensuring it was separate from the noble tournament for time constraint reasons, not to separate Nobles from non-nobles ) and to put together and host what was not called the "Commoners Tournament" but rather "The People's Arms Tournament". By all means if the commoners would like to run their own event, please feel free to do so in the fall in fact... I beg you to do so.

I would like to greatly thank Merideth of Mordom as the only non-noble to fashion prizes for the People's Arms Tournament for her offer to make pouches for the winners of the single categories.

Also Thank you to a few of you helped judge the events, and Thrush for stepping up to announce the 5-man teams and set them up for combat.

Edited: To add extra thanks after short rant.
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Re: How interesting

Post by Kai Firebrand » 2013-05-07

Fingers, I would also like to know your sources on where nobles get all these things from you claim they receive. Since becoming a noble of the realm all I have received less in coin then I have gotten in the past, offered more services to the realm itself and still this tree of coin raining has not grown in my backyard. Please tell me where the nobles get the seeds for this tree, for I am clearly missing out.
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Re: How interesting

Post by fingers630 » 2013-05-08

Good Sir Kai,

You are obviously not yet inducted into their inner circles where they bathe in gold and the blood and sweat of the commoners they rule over. I assure you, you and the count are in the minority of Nobles when it comes to "not having gold".

I am told the good Marquis Dubh has a privy made of gold.

Thank you for hosting the event, and congrats on your victory in one of the events you so hosted. It was fun facing your team, even though I lost.

FTR
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Re: How interesting

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2013-05-08

fingers630 wrote:Good Sir Kai,

You are obviously not yet inducted into their inner circles where they bathe in gold and the blood and sweat of the commoners they rule over. I assure you, you and the count are in the minority of Nobles when it comes to "not having gold".

I am told the good Marquis Dubh has a privy made of gold.

Thank you for hosting the event, and congrats on your victory in one of the events you so hosted. It was fun facing your team, even though I lost.

FTR

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Re: How interesting

Post by HRH Malkin » 2013-05-08

Just FYI:

Last year we held the famn man competition at the same time as the Noble tourney. This year, Slindar and I came out, expecting the same, but someone said because of time constraints they moved the 5 man to the next event.

Thusly, even though the 5 man was technically being held on the Commoners tourney day, the 5 man by precedent allows any 5 combatants to participate. No Quarter put up the 5 best that were there that day and we won.

FInger's you were fighting with 3 Nobles and that didn't seem to bother you... seems odd you'd cry foul afterwards...

People who wish to complain, by all means should continue, but as I see it... the 5 man is about putting the 5 best warriors you have avaiable to you, on the field, and displaying your skill-set.

Also note: If we dropped every team that didn't have a noble on it... Let see... Chosen blood would have been out, we would have been out, Elidor would have been out, Nurgle would have been out... and I am not sure about the others, but that may have left two team out there to fight. So why now are we talking about this?

As it stands, I am told next year's event will not boast any prizes in terms of chairs... thusly Slindar and I are not inclined to hop in the tourney anyway... we just wanted to win the chairs... and we did.

Gratz to Chosen Blood who are/were the only ones to take a fight from NQ (either year)... and they cleaned our clocks the first fight. Again! Nice job guys, I was actually pretty stunned that you clobbered us so handedly.

In any event, if you want the 5 man to be "commoners only"... then perhaps teams of commoners should actually try fighting in the thing...

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Re: How interesting

Post by fingers630 » 2013-05-08

Good sir Prince,

You as your countrymen before you are still not reading my words so I will reitereate them once more.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH NOBLES THAT FOUGHT IN THE 5 MAN TOURNAMENT

Sir Kai had made it open to the entire Realm. I simply said that my challenge to the Nobles of the Realm was to put up gold to pay COMMONERS. As no commoners were on your team, no money was dispensed to you.

I asked those who donated if they wished their coin to still go to your team despite you being of Noble birth, however none have voiced their approval. if they in fact do, I shall gladly forward payment to the 5 of you. If this happens, please be sure the good Count gets his cut, apparently times are hard for him, and his purse is empty.

Chosen Blood vs you guys was a great fight. I think they took the first battle as Sir Tyriel spent the entire battle on his behind. (Removed)

Congrats again on the chair :)

FTR
Last edited by fingers630 on 2013-05-18, edited 1 time in total.
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