Maelstrom

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mardux zulammar
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Maelstrom

Post by mardux zulammar » 2013-07-26

Throwing this up here for discussion purposes before it actually gets submitted to go to senate. Tyriel and myself came up with this after talking about all the complaints and problems about the relic over the last few months. Any and all feedback is appreciated.

Proposal Name: Modification of Maelstrom

Originator: Mardux Zulammar (mmcduffee86 at yahoo dot com) cosign : Baroness Keira al’Lathandre, Baron Tyrial Firebrand, Sir Kai Firebrand

Date:

Type: Modification of Relic Rules

Term: Permanent

Statement: This proposal intends to alter the rules for Maelstrom in order to make the relic more user friendly.

Rationale: Over the years, Maelstrom has gone from being a sought-after item of power to being a relic that is most of the time, either completely neglected, wasted or used simply to grief other players. Frequently, players in possession of Maelstrom either hoard it to keep it from being used or they will waste its three ice storms and then throw the relic away to avoid the annoyance that Maelstrom creates in its current state. Some players would like Maelstrom to be completely gone, but I for one would not like to see that as Maelstrom is a part of Darkon's history. I feel that by using the new rule that is being proposed, players will want to use and see Maelstrom on the field more often.

Text: From:This mighty two-handed sword was first used by the frost giants dwelling in the frozen wastes above Valdimar. The maelstrom functions as a two-handed, enchanted great sword, in addition to having the ability to generate Ice Storms. The participant in possession of Maelstrom may hurl up to 3 Ice Storms. To utilize this ability, the possessor must say "I summon ice from Maelstrom!", then throw a white spellball at their target. Failure to say the incantation line will result in the spell not going into effect. The spellballs may be ones accompanying Malestrom or ones belonging to a mage. The effects of the ice storm act exactly as they are written in the mage spell Ice Storm, see Chapter Six: Spells and Magic. Only Maelstrom itself may cut through the ice to cause damage to the victim, although the victim can also be freed and/or damaged according the the rules of Ice Storm.

The possessor also receives the benefit of immunity to all cold based attacks. Although Maelstrom is considered to be a great sword, those unable to wield a great sword may still use the Maelstrom's magical abilities so long as it is not wielded as a great sword in their hands. Once the spellballs have been thrown, the magic of the sword is depleted until recharged by a Mage, in Hades, or at the discretion of an Elder.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To: (changes in BOLD) This mighty two-handed sword was first used by the frost giants dwelling in the frozen wastes above Valdimar. The maelstrom functions as a two-handed, enchanted greatsword that deals 3 points of damage when swung with both hands and 1 point of damage when swung single handedly, in addition to having the ability to generate an Ice Storm. The participant in possession of Maelstrom may hurl a single Ice Storm. To utilize this ability, the possessor must say "I summon ice from Maelstrom!", then throw a white spellball at their target. Failure to say the incantation line will result in the spell not going into effect. The spellball may be the one accompanying Malestrom or one belonging to a mage. The effects of the ice storm act exactly as they are written in the mage spell Ice Storm, see Chapter Six: Spells and Magic. Only Maelstrom itself may cut through the ice to cause damage to the victim, although the victim can also be freed and/or damaged according the the rules of Ice Storm.

The possessor also receives the benefit of immunity to all cold based attacks. Although Maelstrom is considered to be a great sword, those unable to wield a great sword may still use the Maelstrom's magical abilities so long as it is not wielded as a great sword in their hands. Once the spellball has been thrown, the magic spell casting ability of the sword is depleted until recharged by a Mage, in Hades, or at the discretion of an Elder.
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Lord Valfryn
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-07-27

Not too bad. 3 point damage is a little odd. I genuinely don't think we need to "beef up" the melee damage in order to nerf the spell capabilities of the sword.

If any mechanic should be changed or a new one introduced, it could easily be the spell mechanic, either through reduction of charge (as you did), or modify the effect (reduced frozen count/ iced hit location)...

Such as : the spell balls would freeze (limb lock) whatever it hits, obviously torso and head are fully incapacitating. Limbs struck by the ice ball are still valid hit locations and all armor is exhausted on that location (frozen limbs are brittle). I like a 30 count, then the armor/ limb is just fine... it's only in danger during that 30 count. Though there aren't any established rules that we have that reinstates lost armor value after the effect, so we may want to keep armor exhausted after the 30 count, just for ease of play later on.

I would work in something about shields being insta- destroyed, but if that were the case the JoL would become less gnarly. I would keep the three spellballs if you made it so shields could block the "iceballs", or make the ice balls into "shield breaking" weapons IE you need to hit the same shield 3 times and it's down, that way if you're determined to ice someone, and they block all 3, they still eat a little bit of * over it.
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by mardux zulammar » 2013-07-27

"Limb-lock" is an interesting idea. I like it.

But from my point of view, if we don't do something that makes people want to swing the sword, its not going to help with part of the current problem with the relic. That part being that almost no one wants to use it as an actual sword. They'll use the ice storms then toss the sword aside in favor of their own personal black that was made for them and that they're used to. Maybe buffing the damage is the wrong route to take, but that's all we could think of at the time.
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by Inox » 2013-07-28

I like the 3pt. damage.

Once upon a time, Maelstrom did a White & a Black, so this would be a nice way to return to the sword's original power level, while toning down the overpowering ice storms.
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-07-28

I was thinking about this.. what about white damage, but ignores all armor/effects?

I think that's easier to handle in the ways of computing your damage, still mortals on a second hit to limbs regardless of armor and first hit torso.

Goes right through skins, how about gaseous? Could be gnarly.
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by Ericson » 2013-07-29

Lord Valfryn wrote:I would work in something about shields being insta- destroyed, but if that were the case the JoL would become less gnarly. I would keep the three spellballs if you made it so shields could block the "iceballs", or make the ice balls into "shield breaking" weapons IE you need to hit the same shield 3 times and it's down, that way if you're determined to ice someone, and they block all 3, they still eat a little bit of * over it.


How about shields become "frozen". A frozen shield becomes brittle, so 3 shots from ANY weapon destroys the shield. If you can go the duration of the freeze without having your shield destroyed, then it goes back to being a regular shield.

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Re: Maelstrom

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-07-29

BRITTLESHIELD!!!BRITTLESHIELD!!!
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2013-07-29

I think the 3 points would be good to make people want to actually use the weapon. One ice storm takes one person out of the fight potentially just like the AoP. I feel like being able to take out three dudes with one relic is kinda crazy. The three points will make people think of using Maelstrom or ditching it to use their own stuff. I feel like yelling 3 or Maelstrom would be ok when swinging it to let people know whats up.
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by mardux zulammar » 2013-07-29

Yelling Maelstrom should be fine. That's what we do with the dagger, arrow, and javelin to let people know they're getting hit with a weapon that does abnormal damage.
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-07-30

true enough. ditch the iceballs, maelstrom is a murder machine at 3 pts.. and less pillows to wrangle up at the end of the day, the better.

Make it 3 pts, immune to cold/fire attacks. Boom
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by mardux zulammar » 2013-07-30

True. Especially once we get the OK to rebuild it.. imagine kai's or Tyriel's black sword dealing 3 damage... at Max length..
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by Inox » 2013-07-30

Lord Valfryn wrote:true enough. ditch the iceballs, maelstrom is a murder machine at 3 pts.. and less pillows to wrangle up at the end of the day, the better.

Make it 3 pts, immune to cold/fire attacks. Boom


Perfect. Then, it would actually be carried rather than continually dropped after spellball time. That relic spends more time on the ground than plants do.
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by fingers630 » 2013-07-30

why protektion from fire? doesnt make any sense to me in as far as the lore goes. id rather see it as destroying shields on less hits, or useable to bash down keep gates. (my stupid keyboard is busted, exkuse spelling.)
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by Inox » 2013-07-30

We already have two shieldbreaking relics, as well as a third that ignores shields.

Protection from fire makes sense, b/c the sword conveys to the wielder something of the icy north; they are one with (and immune to) the cold, and likewise, that cold protects from heat & fire. Both extremes covered.
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by fingers630 » 2013-07-30

Yeah I think the Mace needs to get redone too. When was the last time you saw it used? Hell it is only useable by clerics, and clerics dont even use it.

Ok ill get behind the immunity to fire and ice effect. I definitely am on board with the 3pt damage.
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by Sir Sturmbjorne » 2013-07-30

Saw the mace used this event and used the axe as a fighter after my great-axe was destroyed by the might of Inox's arm (on accident of course), I agree, we dont need more shield-breaking relics, although an influx of greataxes would be cool... i loved mine... Anyways, back to OP

I'm on board with the 1 spellball and 3pt/1pt damage, saying something like "maelstrom" when swinging should work.
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-07-31

Out of curiosity; why now? Maelstrom has been around since.. what... 1984?.. with little to no modification. Why is it overpowered or awkwardly played now? Has something in the game rules shifted to make Maelstrom; in it's current form, too strong? Or has perception changed because people use Maelstrom to freeze prime targets on the field (skilled players, plate armor users, shieldmen, etc)? Yes, I have seen said targets grab Maelstrom and expend it's power just to avoid being used on them. Valid tactic in my mind.

Do not get me wrong; I am 100% behind progress, rule changes, and the general evolution for the betterment Darkon... but I'd like to see such done for the right reason. Much like the Arrow of Slaying; I would not want to see a relic changed just because 'that bastage insta-gibbed me again'. Know what I mean? Just as other posters above have mentioned; there are other relics that get used far, far less than Maelstrom (some even considered useless and not worth picking up) that may be more worthy of review and updating than Maelstrom.
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by Inox » 2013-07-31

Sir Aethilgar wrote:Out of curiosity; why now? Maelstrom has been around since.. what... 1984?.. with little to no modification.


Incorrect. It was introduced at an adventure at Ceannric's farm in the '86-'88 timeframe. Darkon didn't even start until around Halloween '85. Anyone who tells you otherwise is making * up or remembering poorly.

Anyhow, Amo has a video of that adventure somewhere (I was on it). I am sure the exact date is listed.

Getting to the point: Maelstrom originally did a Black and a White (3 points in our modern rules).

So really, we are bringing that aspect back. Since we removed it, people throw the iceballs and then drop the sword most of the time.

Not to mention that with a lot more people on the field than when it originated, it's far easier to hit someone with the spellballs, when it used to be much more of a challenge to use. Plus, with teams that were practice-sized, it was hard to always have the chance to throw all three. Plus we didn't have Charge Item back then.

Anyhow, changing it would make it less OP but more fun.
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-07-31

Thank you for that correction; would have had to have been in '86-earliy '87 timeframe because it was on the field and (I think) in the rulebook by late '87.

So, maelstrom has become less powerful in melee (Do we know when this happened? I don't recall maelstrom ever being more than black.) and is considered 'OP' due to the number of people that might get hit with a spellball or the length of battles caused by having more people on the field?

And the solution is to make the user of maelstrom immune to fire/cold spells (fireball, icestorm), do 50% more melee damage, and only freeze one person per fight (unless recharged on the field via spell)?
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by fingers630 » 2013-07-31

So it sounds like we have 2 basic suggestions for rules:

Maelstrom does 3pts Damage (Magic)
Cuts through Frozen people to damage them as normal
Bearer immune to cold/fire based spells (Ice Storm, Burning Hands, Fireball)

or

Maelstrom does 3pts Damage (Magic)
Cuts through Frozen people to damage them as normal
Bearer immune to cold based spells (Ice Storm)
Bearer may throw 1 ice storm spell ball if sword is "charged"

Is that correct?
Also what is the stance on swinging Maelstrom 1 handed? Ive seen people suggest 1pt damage, but personally I dont think anyone should be allowed to swing a Giant's Sword 1 handed. Thoughts?
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by Inox » 2013-07-31

Sir Aethilgar wrote:Thank you for that correction; would have had to have been in '86-earliy '87 timeframe because it was on the field and (I think) in the rulebook by late '87.

So, maelstrom has become less powerful in melee (Do we know when this happened? I don't recall maelstrom ever being more than black.) and is considered 'OP' due to the number of people that might get hit with a spellball or the length of battles caused by having more people on the field?

And the solution is to make the user of maelstrom immune to fire/cold spells (fireball, icestorm), do 50% more melee damage, and only freeze one person per fight (unless recharged on the field via spell)?


Right now, it makes you immune to cold.

We are proposing restoring it to its original damage, removing two of the iceballs, and adding immunity to fire.

Fireballs used to be super rare on the field in the early days, so this more reflects modern Darkon combat in a balanced way. Also, people would want to actually hold onto the relic, not just leave it on the ground once it was out of "ammo".
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by Inox » 2013-07-31

fingers630 wrote:So it sounds like we have 2 basic suggestions for rules:

Maelstrom does 3pts Damage (Magic)
Cuts through Frozen people to damage them as normal
Bearer immune to cold/fire based spells (Ice Storm, Burning Hands, Fireball)

or

Maelstrom does 3pts Damage (Magic)
Cuts through Frozen people to damage them as normal
Bearer immune to cold based spells (Ice Storm)
Bearer may throw 1 ice storm spell ball if sword is "charged"

Is that correct?
Also what is the stance on swinging Maelstrom 1 handed? Ive seen people suggest 1pt damage, but personally I dont think anyone should be allowed to swing a Giant's Sword 1 handed. Thoughts?


Personally, I'd be happiest seeing it not have any ice balls at all, just provide the immunities, the extra damage, and letting it cut through Ice Storm.

...and yes, you should have to swing it two handed.
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-07-31

Yup, I suggested fire immunity based on it having ZERO spell balls.

Maelstrom being a giant's sword MUST be used 2 handed. (unless giant growthed)
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by Inox » 2013-07-31

Lord Valfryn wrote:Yup, I suggested fire immunity based on it having ZERO spell balls.

Maelstrom being a giant's sword MUST be used 2 handed. (unless giant growthed)



Plus (I believe we all said this before), it should also be a maximum size great sword (6'6").
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Re: Maelstrom

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-08-04

Cooking with gas

max size GS, must be swung 2 handed, does 3 points of damage. Immune to fire/cold.

3 less spellballs to stuff in the bag, fin.
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