Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

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Thrush Svartehjertet
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Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-10-23

Ring fights are killing Darkon, slowly.

I made a very detailed post on Monday about this, but the internet ate it.

The gist:


On Sunday there were no field elders and less than 50 people on the field. There were more people on the sidelines and at the ring fights than on the field.

Everyone needs to judge or "support their boy" in the ring fights now...

Darkon is not about a tourney system of advancing titles. It is the Darkon Wargaming Club.

It is clear that if you give Darkon ANYTHING to do that involves watching and not fighting on the field, they will do it. So we have started making everyone nobles and figuring out more and more ways to hand out titles. Some say it ads to flavor and some say it gives people something to strive for... I say its another distraction from what Darkon was built to be: medieval fantasy team combat in a large format.

I think there should be as many scheduled ring fight only days as those interested in it want, that are NOT part of the Darkon every other sunday schedule. Just schedule to meet in someone's back yeard, put a ring in it, and get all of your terribly judged, joke of an honor system makintg, self agrandizing, title giving activities out of your system.

The Darkon product is watered down.

Just give everyone a title, and let's get back to conquering our fake world and beating the crap out of each other. I mean seriously, what the * are you "nobles" of? 50 people who are willing to play the game?

I challenge ALL the nobles to play darkon ALL day (say 1-4pm?) for a calender year.

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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Lord Cailen Sendor » 2013-10-23

Thrush your seething example above of your unhappiness deserves - no requests a response.

1. There were never more then 15 - 20 people around the tournament ring at any given time last event.
2. It is the country responsibility to have a member of their country sign in as a elder at every event.
3. The 2 team did not require babysitting as you are all adults and if a issue did arise there were people on hand to help with any given situation (or they were within 75 feet).
4. Not many showed to the event. That is not your or my responsibility but rather it was their choice not to attend. If you looked on the schedule the event was listed as a two-team maybe just maybe some people have enjoyed all the events that were not a two-team and did not want to go to a "two-team" day event.
5. At the regular tourney day many of the nobles (myself included) took the time to elder and run the event, which helped to ensure people had a good time and were able to fight all day.
6. Darkon is and does have rules for tourney advancement in the ring - it is a part of our game - and it has been for a very long time. The idea that somehow it is not a part of what we as a organization do at times is a falsehood. Many do not choose to be a part of it, which is there right, and I respect their decision to not be a part of it.

"Just schedule to meet in someone's back yeard, put a ring in it, and get all of your terribly judged, joke of an honor system makintg, self agrandizing, title giving activities out of your system."

That comment is a * way to disrespect others that spend time doing things for the health and operation of our organization. On this comment you are putting down members of our organization that for years have had meetings outside of events to help our organization to run. Tournaments - problem issues - weapon specs - contacting outside community organizations for granting of fighting space - volunteers - and finally members of our core group that threw the years have earned the respect of the organization as a whole this is the group your self serving attack is directed at.

I ask you the following how much time have you personally invested outside of an event to either help run an event or to help dictate what are safe or acceptable practices for our organization to have? I can tell you the noble council has spent as many hours off the field as they have spent on the field performing these tasks for years. And when there is a issue we are expected to be the players that the game can come to help resolve a issue any event, any time of year without regard for our own interests or the interests of our nations.

I challenge you Thrush to stop bitching.
I challenge you to invest the time I have into our game.
I challenge you to help the game without trying to disrespect those who are also helping the game.

This past weekend we had two noble ring fights ... both were honorably fought battles between competitors. Both were self judged by the competitors and the judges were only there to speak up if something was missed or a mistake in counting was made. Both fights were well fought and clean with 0 issues. I am sorry its not your cup of tea but do not piss on the people who like that type of tea!

In closing I challenge you to bring people to the organization so we have more on the field. That way you will have more fun.

I myself have brought over 150 people in over 25 years to darkon. I don't spend my time bitching about something before I take the time myself to try and fix what ever I think is broken while not disrespecting those who are enjoying the thing they like to do when they are at events. Even this year you were there when I ran a event because no one stepped up to run it and thank you for your assistance as a NPC at that event.

I WOULD LOVE TO PLAY DARKON FOR 4 HOURS STRAIGHT EVERY EVENT BUT SADLY FOR YOU - HAPPLY FOR ME I AM SPENDING THAT TIME MAKING SURE OTHERS ARE HAVING FUN OR GETTING ANY ISSUES HANDLED.

In service,
His Royal Majesty Cailen Sendor

Half Elven Founder and 1st King of Elidor

Honorable member of both the current Executive Board and the Noble Council
Last edited by Lord Cailen Sendor on 2013-10-23, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Lord Cailen Sendor » 2013-10-23

In closing don't bitch at the people that took the time to come to the event bitch at the people who did not attend... if you really see the need to bitch.
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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Gor Bloodclaw » 2013-10-23

Thrush 1
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Nice post, Thrush. I totally agree.

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Cailen just disregarding a legitimate issue doesn't make it go away or make it any less of an issue.
Just off the top of my head I can see three viable options.
1.) Make a campout portion a noble tournament. This will give the NC two campouts(or portions) to plan. Make it happen on the Sunday. This will keep people from going home on Sundays, letting people fight in the woods and letting the Noble Council do their thing.

2.) The NC already meets regular about NC business. Fight then.

3.) Make an early event. Set the fight time at 10. Those who want to show will show, while keeping all the darkonians on the field.
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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by shroom2021 » 2013-10-24

This doesn't seem like a legitimate issue.
We have tourneys in the spring and fall. During which attendance on the two teams field drops because

"Everyone needs to judge or "support their boy" in the ring fights now..."

This makes it seem like people are there because that is what they want to do that day.

You can't tell anyone how to enjoy Darkon. My wife has started coming out and loves everything about Darkon except for the fighting part ;)

Personally I have no interest in tourneys. I would prefer to have the bulk of the crowd on the field fighting, but I am not about to tell them to stop watching the fights so my day can be more enjoyable.

But this is just me, I don't represent everyone and neither do those watching the tourney or participating. It is quite possible that a majority of the realm does not even show up on those days because they believe that there will be no field battle due to the ring fights.
It is also possible that a majority of the realm enjoys the ring fights. A lot of people seem to enjoy both being in and watching the pit fights on saturday nights during campouts.

I do feel the legitimate concern here though. It has felt as though attendance has gone down this year, though I doubt there is one single thing we can point to as the cause of this.

I

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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-10-24

shroom2021 wrote:I do feel the legitimate concern here though. It has felt as though attendance has gone down this year, though I doubt there is one single thing we can point to as the cause of this.


Dude, there are not just ring fights on the 2 tourney days. There are less and less people showing up because there is less and less reason to, IF you want to just play Darkon.

If you are not part of a war or somehow invested in a ring fight, the ACTUAL Darkon fighting is tiny most days.

Think about where we have the best fights with te most people at once. The best fighting days we've had lately have been in the lower woods at Redland when we CAN'T do anything else.

Cailen, what you miss due to being so busy helping others have fun is that if the people that new players are looking up to as "role models" in the game, those of you who supposedly represent the best of the best, who have tasked yourselves with the safety and stewardship of the game, do not lead by example (ie get on the field and play Darkon)... they have no reason to do so either.

As to the ring fights, every single one I've seen latley has been a joke. Sorry... it's not just me.

Seriously though, you say all I do is bitch. I don't know how to bring up problems I see without using words...

I am no noble, so I don't expect you, as a noble, to understand that looking from the outside in, it looks a lot like there is a fast growing group of nobles who are not playing Darkon, they are playing nobles. You guys have your meetings, you advance each other in the ring, you bestow titles on each other and you have squires to make more nobles... If you think I don't know what the jobs of the NC are, you are mistaken. My observations involve game play.

You guys are supposed to be Darkonians who HAPPEN to be nobles, not Noble who HAPPEN to play Darkon.

So obviously you don't see that I do anything for Darkon. Cool. This might be because you are never in the same place I am, on the field. But you have important, nobly, kingly duties that I would'nt understand... I also remember our last 3 kings being active players on the field, first and foremost. But we each play the game in our own way, and that's what makes Darkon awesome... right?

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PS: I very rarely make this * up to just post, there are WAY more fun places to be on the internet. But that's right, I don't do anything for Darkon... When I post somehting like this it's 95% of the time based on conversations I have had on the field AT Darkon. Between fights on Sunday we looked at the sidelines, the ring, and at the field.

""1. There were never more then 15 - 20 people around the tournament ring at any given time last event. ""

You are wrong.
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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-10-24

Why are some people choosing to watch tourneys and not choosing to fight two-teams?

Why are some people showing for a single set of land war actions and then leaving for the day and not staying for two teams?

People are making a choice not to fight two-teams. Why?
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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-10-24

THAT, is a valid question.

If there was NOTHING to do other than the main battle scenario for the day, people would have no choice... The only thing I can say is country leaders need to encourage their people to leave the sidelines. I think Nobles, vets and country leaders should step up to bat and try to get people off the sidelines.

Why spend the fuel money, check in fee, and time, to drive to sit in a folding chair dressed in a costume? At least play Darkon at Darkon...

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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2013-10-24

I just wanna say, when im not dealing with tourney stuff I fight in the two teams. lol.
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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Inox » 2013-10-24

Really, a bigger issue than ring fights are land actions.

When there are wars, people tend to spend most of the time until the war is fought preparing, usually totally on the sidelines. Then, many of them end up being "done for the day" after the war is fought.

Even when there are no wars, land actions take up a lot of time, and often force a delay with other events taking place (adventures, people's tourney, etc.).

The ring fights are usually twice a year, and are a small portion of the day. Land actions are every event other than a campout...provided the Land Marshal or one of the assistants shows up. Granted, that was a problem last event.

Another issue is that our attendance in general has been flagging for the past year. I know I might be beating a dead horse, but * it. When we jacked up the price to $5 (as compared to Dag's $3), we introduced a chilling effect. Those of us with disposable income can dismiss it, but the correlation is undeniable...and no other potential cause presents itself.

We've also been pretty lax with having any sort of structure at events outside of the special events. At each event, getting people onto the field is haphazard, as is the structuring of sides. We seldom have an objective during the fighting, either.

It used to be that as soon as check-in closed, everyone hit the field for the fighting. Now, a huge percentage of the game is on the sidelines, doing god-knows-what, often waiting for their chance to do the parts of Darkon that persist, and are permanent. Things involving coin, title, land, awards, and adventures.

Noble fights are such a small potatoes issue in a much larger problematic trend.
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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-10-24

last event was also the last day of renfest, which may have caused a few players to skip.

Location is also an issue with attendance.
I'm fairly sure that our biggest number days were at ccbc, millersville, burtonsville.
We no longer use two of these sites.
Many people outright boycott VA sites.

I will also say that I recall few "nice weather days" this year. It went from being * cold, directly to * hot. A great many of our players are "fair weather players".

I also agree that the "system" for tourney fights is lengthy, arduous and drains on a great amount of player resources. I personally would like to see NC fights ran the same way as commoner fights. (bracket style events with random opponents, single tourney winner), but meh.

I also think that the tourney should be for the tourney's sake, and not promotion. Just thinking aloud here, but maybe War should determine the King of a Wargaming Club.

For the dues increase: I guess Inox is right, I am being dismissive... but the truth of the matter is (to me) that if 3$ determines weather or not a player can afford to go to the event, chances are that player probably is not in legal garb, probably doesn't have maintenanced weapons, and likely is smoking (borrowed cigarettes) on the sidelines anyway. If a player has legal garb, weapons and isn't a slacker... chances are there's at least one unit in Darkon that will pay dues for an extra body on their roster.
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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Inox » 2013-10-24

Lord Valfryn wrote:I will also say that I recall few "nice weather days" this year. It went from being * cold, directly to * hot. A great many of our players are "fair weather players".


We had more people at winter battles in deep snow, with blowing icy winds, than we did at that recent ACS battle.

Lord Valfryn wrote:I also agree that the "system" for tourney fights is lengthy, arduous and drains on a great amount of player resources. I personally would like to see NC fights ran the same way as commoner fights. (bracket style events with random opponents, single tourney winner), but meh.

I also think that the tourney should be for the tourney's sake, and not promotion. Just thinking aloud here, but maybe War should determine the King of a Wargaming Club.


I have long had issue with the Noble fights. I was one of the people who helped hammer out the current number of rounds used. Fights used to drag on and on, and combatants got so tired it was absurd. Cailen even had a heart attack in the ring! (To his credit, he finished the fight and won.)

Still, there is a lot of room for improvement. I've seen fights deteriorate into grappling fests, and in general, the level of skill displayed in the ring is lower than the skill displayed by the very same combatants on the open field. I mean, I loooooove grappling, but there's a time and a place imo.

I'd also like to see Noble fights more like Commoner fights than just one-on-one for numerous rounds. I'd like to see promotions occur purely due to service to the game.

Will these things happen anytime soon? Well, we can be a voice for it. I am sure plenty want it another way as well. Personally, as for titles, I am always reminded of the words from the old Darkon bylaws:

"Nobles must accept and understand their status is bestowed upon them by the very concept and nature of the Club. Without the Club the titles are meaningless."


Lord Valfryn wrote:For the dues increase: I guess Inox is right, I am being dismissive... but the truth of the matter is (to me) that if 3$ determines weather or not a player can afford to go to the event, chances are that player probably is not in legal garb, probably doesn't have maintenanced weapons, and likely is smoking (borrowed cigarettes) on the sidelines anyway. If a player has legal garb, weapons and isn't a slacker... chances are there's at least one unit in Darkon that will pay dues for an extra body on their roster.


Let me put it in different terms. Say we jacked the price up to $20 an event.

Now, plenty of us would be able to pay that without it being a budgetary concern. Nothing would have to be skimped on, or scraped together, or sacrificed, in order to throw down $20 every two weeks.

However, if Darkon suddenly cost a lot more, I'd be less inclined to pay it. Not because I couldn't, but because it would feel stupid to do so. Because it would seem needlessly high, and I wouldn't be getting anything beyond what I got when I paid far less. I'd get a sense of being ripped off.

Now, for years, people paid $2 for a day event. All of a sudden, we jacked prices 150% while adding zero additional value. When the other options for fighting (various local practices: FREE, Dagorhir day event: $3) are less expensive, people are less inclined to accept a rate increase gladly.

I used to be pretty damned broke. I always had decent costume & gear, but I know with complete certainty that I'd have bristled at a sudden jump in dues from $2 to $5. Yes, even then I could have somehow made sure I had the money every two weeks, but no one likes to suddenly pay more for the same experience. The less disposable income you have, the more that's a slap in the face.

The terrible fact is that we don't need to charge $5 in order to make ends meet. That's faulty analysis. Yes, we need more money the fewer players we have, but...the more we charge, the fewer we have. There is a sweet spot, and we are not currently in it. Witness: The worst attendance numbers in over a decade.
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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-10-25

I think you are forgetting that we now have other ring fights too... But yeah.

I would not pay more for Darkon at this point because the product is half assed. If the product is good and whole assed, I'd pay gladly.

So, is the answer to have objective based fights every event?

I feel like we should have a country leader meeting... They SHOULD be able to motivate their peops to play.

Inox, the decline in numbers of checked in people does not hurt the game NEARLY as much as the % of them NOT actively playing. I'm all for friends and wives and Elidorians paying to check in and hang out in costume, but I feel like we are taking them into account too much and losing quality in the name of inclusiveness. We have added so much "flavor" and "non fighting" stuff over the last 3 years to Darkon, and now the events suck for those who still come to fight on the "biggest" foam fighting field in the region.

Let's keep talking, there are A LOT of people who see the product suffering...


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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by fingers630 » 2013-10-25

'm all for friends and wives and Elidorians paying to check in and hang out in costume, but I feel like we are taking them into account too much and losing quality in the name of inclusiveness



LOL almost every battle I attend, Elidor starts 2 teams, and it is Elidor vs the Realm on days we have a good fielding. you should probably use NK in your example =P.
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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-10-25

Sarcasm obviously doesnt translate... I am all to well aware of the fact that if you stay 'till there are 20 people left (usually by 3:30 sadly), half of them are Elidorians... Shut up Fingers.

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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Sir Sturmbjorne » 2013-10-25

People come and do what they want to do at Darkon. If they want to sit on their butts, go for it.

If you see a friend sitting on their butts, call them a wuss, a panty-waist etc.
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In the end, only those that come to fight will be on the field, and in my book, those are who i'd rather be fighting anyways.
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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-10-25

/Soapbox on (you have been warned)

Perspective is important... and individual perspective most so.

When I first started Darkon ('87); the events were more geared toward country-on-country conflict (but not land wars). Country battles, banner battles, alliance battles, adventures, camp-outs, etc... they were all designed toward having each country stand as a unit and square off against other units. (Max country size was 20 at the time.) Two team battles had objectives; caravan, fort battles, adventures (again), etc. It was rare (and usually just as an 'end of the day' pick-up fight, where we had generic two team fights. In the end; those events that I remember most fondly were country-on-country battles... (Minathlan sweeping the day at a McKeldin even against the combined forces of Raman, Elidor, Mordom, and Lockwyr. It is a very... good... story... and gets better with each re-telling. Anyway.) I don't recall a single two-team battle specifically. They all tend to blur together.

To sum all this up; I love melees. Tourneys are fun but have never been my primary enjoyment of Darkon. The melees that mean the most for me at Darkon are unit on unit rather than one side verse the other. In unit on unit fighting, my dearest companions are those near and depending on me. If I take a break for a few fights, our unit suffers thus I am inspired to stay on the field. Unit on unit fighting further inspires each country to recruit (growing the game) and upgrade their gear (hopefully improving the game's appearance). Unit on unit combat encourages inter-country politics and role-play. By contrast; side on side two teams do none of this for me. Yes, there is plenty of fighting (which is nice) but... I can take a break and not overly impact one side or the other. I don't need to recruit because my country will simply be part of a mob. I don't need to push my guys into bigger and better gear because it's overall impact is diluted over 30-50+ people. I don't need to role-play because the sides will shift to accommodate balance rather than politics (I may be sided with the forces of Light this round and the forces of Darkness the next).

My observation is that Darkon's culture changes. Heck, change is the only constant. Well, change and Elidor, perhaps. :P But seriously. The focus in Darkon today is a lot different from the focus in Darkon of yesteryear. I think what we should explore is 'what type of game scenarios do Darkonians of today wish to play'. As I asked before; why are people making the choice *not* to fight two-team battles? And a corollary; 'what can Darkon do to convince those people to choose to get back on the field?'

/Soapbox off (now get off my lawn)
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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-10-25

Sir Aethilgar wrote: Unit on unit fighting further inspires each country to recruit (growing the game) and upgrade their gear (hopefully improving the game's appearance). Unit on unit combat encourages inter-country politics and role-play. By contrast; side on side two teams do none of this for me. Yes, there is plenty of fighting (which is nice) but... I can take a break and not overly impact one side or the other. I don't need to recruit because my country will simply be part of a mob. I don't need to push my guys into bigger and better gear because it's overall impact is diluted over 30-50+ people. I don't need to role-play because the sides will shift to accommodate balance rather than politics (I may be sided with the forces of Light this round and the forces of Darkness the next).


You could not be more correct.

A few of you know I have been saying for about 5 years that Reunion Farm killed Darkon. When we got complacent and made HABITS at reunion (hanging out in the same camps, doing the same basic thing with the same basic people) for a decade, hate left Darkon. In game, out of game... it dosn't matter. For a competitive game to thrive, there has to be a desire to be better than others, or at the very least HATE.

Keldar once drunkenly leaned on my shoulder at a campout and said "Ya know what Thrush, Rome was good for Darkon, but they were better for Mordom." Think about that for a second.

Who do you hate? Who do you wanna beat so bad it makes you wanna go crosseyed if they keep beating you?

I said to someone recently I think that Northern Kingdoms (while really, really trying to look good and whatnot, and I give them mad props for it!!!) are bad for Darkon right now. They took 3 possibly aweosme countries with their own unique flavors, and possibly their own rivalries... and made a melange of hanging out in a large group. Rather than everyone team up to beat them, everyone goes to hang out with them because they were friends with peops in Albion/Chendrolyn/Sarum... This is no fault of theirs, they did what they needed to do to be the (by leeps and bounds) largest force in the game.

Now, personally, I think they go about it wrong and could just beat the * out of everyone as a large force, rather than just politic a lot and have small cliques who fight alll the time... But that's neither here nor there, it's my opinion, and their country!

But it IS a really good example of what I'm talking about.

Gone are the days of going out at night at a camp out to raid camps, NEVER talking to any other countries, only trying to win FOR YOUR COUNTRY. Everything either boils down to 2 teams or a bunch teams elect to win it for another country (Aquanurgle for example).

We've all done it, but now it's the norm.

Sir Aethilgar is 100% spot on in his observation, no soapbox needed, you spit truth.

Thrush
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Ericson
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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Ericson » 2013-10-25

My turn for the soapbox

Back in the day I used to play Eve. I loved it for a while, until my old Alliance was attacked by 75% of the null-sec Alliances. Russians, BoB, Goonswarm, and we had no allies in the fight (Northern Alliance stayed out of the fighting). It was fun for about 2 weeks, then I ran out of ISK and rage-quit because I realized that I had just spent 60 hours of my life getting blown up against 5:1 odds. Still today, Eve Online is divided up into 3 super-powers (think 1984) and two of them are always fighting the other one. The one super-power switches sides and attacks their former allies with their former enemies. This is not very conducive to a casual gaming experience. It gets old real quick.

Now I am not saying that war and conflict is bad. I am saying that these super-powered alliances are bad. In my opinion, the nature of the Darkon land map should be like feudal lords of old times, fighting over rivers and farmland in small skirmishes, with full-out war breaking out occassionally just to keep the game interesting. It shouldn't be anything personal (MAJOR props to Chosen Blood for their sportsmanship, on and off the field) and should be used as a mechanism to keep the game fun.

I want someone to invade Elidor. I want it to be a good fight. I want Elidor to loose a few, win a few, and see who the best country is. If it takes 2-3 countries to team up, then so be it.

I don't want Elidor to form a super-alliance and conquer the entire land map. I don't want entire countries to rage-quit because they lost some fake land in a fake realm that gives them fake gold.

/soapbox

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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Gor Bloodclaw » 2013-10-25

I think we can get people to participate in normal battle days with prizes. Lets say that if this prize would be a limited time land search only, one use prize. For example, you help the Mage of Boner Rock, for 2 months, on a single land search you may have a level 8 mage on your side. You could do the same for poisons. At least it would be a more tangible reason to fight. Just an idea.
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fingers630
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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by fingers630 » 2013-10-25

Im all for events that have limited prizes that dont hugely influence the game (various slayer guilds come to mind)...
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Sir Aethilgar
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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-10-25

Hate? No, not hate... rivalry. I would rather have a rival with which I can have good, clean, rules-following fun on the field and be friendly with off. If I get to the point of actively hating a person or group on the field, I think that would signal to me a good time to take a break and get my head on straight.

That said, I do agree on with you in principle.

On land wars; there are very few countries that have withstood a losing, comprehensive land war that have stayed in the game. Having won a 'total war' scenario in the past; I can say that it just wasn't worth it. Yes, Minathlan's boarders grew. Yes, the losing country stopped playing. Considering that we now have rules which allow for teams to form and not be on the land map, I have to say that it's not hard to determine which was better for the game.

Seeing how much time land actions take up during the average event; I'm not sure how much we want to expand land rules. However, what about raiding? Like Scottish reavers or Viking raiders; attacking a hex with no intention of taking new land... just resources. Would that allow for friendly rivalries to blossom into conflicts without causing game-quitting drama? And would that overly interrupt a given day's events?
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Inox
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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Inox » 2013-10-25

I'd like to see the concept of permanent hexes go away. There was always plenty of reason to fight before it existed, and other games find plenty of reasons to fight.

Ironically, because there's a permanent benefit or detriment to anything related to the land map, people are much more hesitant to go it alone and take big risks. People want to ensure victory, because the map is there as a permanent score card.

Even when we are fighting for the hell of it, or with a single day's objective, people are always cognizant of the potential for being drawn into a land war. For every country like Chosen Blood that handles land wars with grace, there are 5 or 10 examples of countries getting massively butthurt, and with players leaving the game.

Also, the permanent score card effect makes it easier for people to forget they are out there just playing a game--that their fun is interdependent with everyone else's, and the only reason they get to be a Mage or a Noble or a whatever-else is because the other people are there to support the fantasy.

What Darkon is not is a place for achievement-and-recognition-starved people to suddenly gain a sense of control over their lives by dominating and griefing others. The more "permanent effect" stuff we have, though, the more it will become this.

If we want to go back to a game with a lot more on-field participation, we have to shift the focus to objective-based day events, and away from title-based fights and land map actions. Like Steve said, the game used to be very much countries vs. countries, with little teaming and alliance-making. That is the only way we're going to get away from alternating between low activity nonaggression and sudden massive war butthurt.
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Calus
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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by Calus » 2013-10-26

I think this idea was already brought up, but why not reset the map every year or so? Or every 2 years? People would be less inclined to protect what they have and be more inclined to take risks, and it would be a totally new map every time with different terrain and resources.

Alliances would always be shifting depending on your new location, this would eliminate super-teaming. Diplomacy would be HUGE. There would be more incentive for countries to field en masse and to bring out retired members. Like inox stated, it really is a "permanent scorecard". When everyone is more concerned with maintaining the status quo what is the point of doing anything like, say, fighting each other?
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shroom2021
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Re: Actually only having ring fights on tourney days?

Post by shroom2021 » 2013-10-27

We could reset the land map at the end of the year just before the december break. Whichever country has the most land at that time gets some kind of reward for the new year and the land map is reset.

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