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Changing Gates, bringing back rams.

Posted: 2014-02-13
by shroom2021
I am thinking of the following:

Gates - Constructed from Wood or Iron with magical "Dispel Magic" runes. They may not be the target of magical spells or abilities of any kind. Gates can be destroyed by 4 strikes from a Ram. Gates may be destroyed by 4 shots from a siege weapon. If a gate is damaged by a Ram or a siege weapon, it can be mended by a fighter with the shield repair skill. If the gate is struck again before the fighter has finished mending the gate, the fighter must start the shield repair count over again. Once a gate is destroyed it can no longer be mended by any means.

Rams - a pole at least 3'' in diameter,at least 6' long, and safely padded. To be carried or swung, the ram must be held by at least 6 hands. (IE. The ram can be used by 3 people who are all using both hands to hold the ram. IE2. The ram may be used by 6 people, each of which is holding the ram with 1 hand.) To strike a gate, the Ram must swing away from the gate, held aloft for the time is takes for someone to count to 2(IE. One, One thousand, Two, One thousand), and swung forward into the gate.
The Ram may be destroyed by a fireball, or by 4 uninterrupted blows from a shield breaking weapon. If a Ram is destroyed by a shield breaking weapon, the person striking the 4 blows must yell "Ram destroyed" loudly enough for a marshall to hear.
They can be mended by a druid of any level, fighter with the shield repair skill, or a magical mending spell.

Rational: Remove mending from gates, make them harder to destroy in the first place. Defenders can destroy the siege equipment and repair the gate as long as it still stands, but the gate can no longer be repaired once it is destroyed.

Re: Changing Gates, bringing back rams.

Posted: 2014-02-13
by TitusV
what about fire balls and lightning bolts? Do they no longer damage gates in your proposal? Not really discussed in your proposal.

I think 4 hits from a siege weapon is extreme. I would think a siege engine would do more damage than a ram. Plus its physically more difficult to destroy a gate with a siege weapon. Moving the siege weapon is a giant pain currently.

Re: Changing Gates, bringing back rams.

Posted: 2014-02-13
by Sir Tyriel Firebrand
You still dont fix sieges. This only makes it impossible to take a fort if they have a fireballing mage.

Re: Changing Gates, bringing back rams.

Posted: 2014-02-13
by shroom2021
what about fire balls and lightning bolts? Do they no longer damage gates in your proposal? Not really discussed in your proposal.


They may not be the target of magical spells or abilities of any kind.


Was trying to make it so Gates can only be destroyed by seige equipment and not by fireball.

How would 3 shots from a seige weapon sound? I was setting the number of hits from seige equipment higher to extend the life of the gate. If it couldn't be repaired I figured I would make it tougher to break.

You still dont fix sieges. This only makes it impossible to take a fort if they have a fireballing mage.

I think I was still thinking of Inox's magic redux proposal here so that a gate under seige couldn't constantly be the target of repeated AOE fireballs. I see your point here though.
I think in practice the use of a seige engine could destroy the gate without getting close to the defending mage. I also think that a mage or two on the attacking force can help balance out the fight. If I am correct, the mage could potentially stand next to the ram and cast a dispel magic spell whenever the defending mage attempts to throw a fireball at it.
I could be wrong. I don't think this by itself will fix sieges, I think Inox's magic redux will go a long way to doing that, but I think this would move the dynamic of siege warfare away from burn and mend to a more physical approach to taking a fort.

Re: Changing Gates, bringing back rams.

Posted: 2014-02-14
by Inox
To be fair, that's Sergio's proposal re: the magic redux, not mine.

Re: Changing Gates, bringing back rams.

Posted: 2014-02-14
by shroom2021
My mistake

Re: Changing Gates, bringing back rams.

Posted: 2014-02-14
by Sir Tyriel Firebrand
I mean, if you have a fireball mage in your fort, no one will get in with this proposal. You just kill all the people and the battering ram when they get 15 feet from the door.

Re: Changing Gates, bringing back rams.

Posted: 2014-02-14
by shroom2021
You've got a point. This is probably something that is better proposed if AOE is removed from fireball. I'll keep it on the back burner until that happens.

Re: Changing Gates, bringing back rams.

Posted: 2014-10-24
by raima55
Well I would much rather have keep/sieges go the complete opposite direction. Actually having walls. It is a big advantage for the defender to move people around without the aggressor seeing what they are doing. I am all about realism. If its a wall, it should look like one.

Re: Changing Gates, bringing back rams.

Posted: 2014-10-27
by Sir Sturmbjorne
@Raima55, The problem with real walls is the idea of seiging land hexes on regular day events and the fact that we have no permanent structures at any of our campsites right now, so there is no way to make real, lasting walls.