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Appraisal of siege/boat/ bridge mechanics etc

Posted: 2014-02-13
by Lord Valfryn
Recently there's been some discussions regarding the mechanics of sieges, boat fights and general eldering and enforcement when it comes to large amounts of players and meta-game structures. In an attempt to get everyone on the same page, and have a single "fun" mechanic, I've started a line of thought where we might want to use the "bridge mechanic" for just about everything.

Common problems: * planks, * walls, the representation of hard physical objects being flexible (walls/ planks being floppy) and the elders needing to determine how much flexibility they should allow.

To save myself some time, I'm going to be pasting in some ramblings that I've previously written in FB threads that will make up the meat of this discussion. Forgive the "abrupt and bumpy" nature of this delivery, I'm really just trying to get this out there while it's fresh on my mind so I can shovel some snow.

Sieges
Here's another Idea that might be more "groundwork" but less * meta: Moats around keeps/towers. We lay out the netting on the ground against the "wall" and let people fight over it however they can. The wall doesn't even really need to be in there anymore (since it serves no function) and we can say that arrows / missiles don't go past the moat (like how we do on bridge battles where you can't shoot thru the sides). The meta sorts itself out. There's only one gap in the "moat" and that's the gate

So then if people get inside and knock people into the "moat" that's the same as throwing them over the walls, etc
It eliminates "upright walls" all together, uses the same mechanics for bridge battles (which seem to be easy to maintain and elder), and if we use boat battles the same way, we're on one metered system

Boat battles:
Cormac: if i were to redesign boat battles i'd make them basically a dynamic bridge battle where the boat extends off in either direction and you can drop all the planks you want

Lord V: boat battles should be exactly what Cormac says. maybe a fight that rotates between a double bridge battle (two bridges) and a ranged battle (no bridge extended). Alternate every 3 minutes. Would be * carnage

So here goes: I would run boat battles like this: Imagine two structures that are 10 feet apart, with two bridges connecting them (the planks). The battle would be fought in two phases, in (3) minute increments: ranged and naval. the "faster ship" in the engagement can determine which phase starts the battle. If it's a naval phase, the planks are not used, so the boats fight using only the methods they can harm eachother via range, in the boarding phase, the planks are active and the battle is fought as a double bridge battle. anyone touching the water in metal sinks, and anyone on the wrong boat when the phase ends is well, not likely going to have a good time. planks are undestroyable (less eldering/ poppycock) and the boats are unsinkable.

Re: Appraisal of siege/boat/ bridge mechanics etc

Posted: 2014-02-13
by Varnak_the_UnNamed
While those are wildly different that we are used to, I can easily see the merits. I really like the boat battles in two phases, I am not so sure about the moat replacing the walls.

Re: Appraisal of siege/boat/ bridge mechanics etc

Posted: 2014-02-13
by Lord Valfryn
the moat is a representation of walls as well. they're implied. you can't shoot arrows straight into the keep still, and you can still "climb the wall" but it metas "swimming the moat" as well.

everything else still works as normal, except the gate also has a "narrow bridge" infront of it.

no more floppy cock posts, no more stretching the walls... and now people can swing at eachother if they're willing to lean over the moat and risk it. We're all used to the "dont touch the lava" gameplay, so that's all good.

Re: Appraisal of siege/boat/ bridge mechanics etc

Posted: 2014-02-13
by TitusV
Well I would much rather have keep/sieges go the complete opposite direction. Actually having walls. It is a big advantage for the defender to move people around without the aggressor seeing what they are doing. I am all about realism. If its a wall, it should look like one.

I think the boat battles are cool and only need minor tweaking. I would double the physical size of every boat. I would also make planks not destroyable.

Re: Appraisal of siege/boat/ bridge mechanics etc

Posted: 2014-02-13
by Kai Firebrand
Boats: Three minutes of fireballs and siege weapons is a lot of killin, Man o wars have 4 guns. I like the idea of 2 bridge battle. but I dont want to see more pillow fighting. more mechanics that involve swinging swords.

Re: Appraisal of siege/boat/ bridge mechanics etc

Posted: 2014-02-13
by Snudge
how do you determine which boat is faster? Is it based on the size of the vessel?

Re: Appraisal of siege/boat/ bridge mechanics etc

Posted: 2014-02-13
by Lord Valfryn
sure, or its movement rate.

Re: Appraisal of siege/boat/ bridge mechanics etc

Posted: 2014-02-14
by Snudge
all boats have the same movement rate, 12 points. Only differences are size, crew capacity, gun capacity and income

Re: Appraisal of siege/boat/ bridge mechanics etc

Posted: 2014-02-14
by Thrush Svartehjertet
Some * definitely needs to change. In the siege on Sunday, the one "wall" was 6" off the ground, Gutsmangul could stab me with impunity but i couldnt touch him over a 6" wall.... That's just sloppy, dumb, * that makes Darkon look more retarded than we are.

While I agree that real walls would be best, I htink for the sake of mechanics and reality, moats make more sense. The thing I hate most of all about fake "walls" is missile and pole weapon rules. I do not have solutions just yet, but they are pretty damn annoyingly busted.

I like that we are having this discussion.

I am now going to Belgina Beerfest, I will not remember any of this tonight.

Thrush
beerserk

Re: Appraisal of siege/boat/ bridge mechanics etc

Posted: 2014-02-14
by Sir Caetrel
Unsucking boat battles in two easy steps....

1. Two Planks are denoted with rope, just as the boats themselves. 3 ft. wide, 10 ft. long. They are there when the battle starts, when it ends, and cannot be moved or destroyed.

2. Man O' War can have 2 guns, Frigate can have 1, Caraval 0.

Re: Appraisal of siege/boat/ bridge mechanics etc

Posted: 2014-02-14
by Amazing_Iltztafein
Destroyable planks can be fun and make for more strategy.

As for a 6" wall, that has nothing to do with the siege rules and everything to do with a structure simply not being set up right.

Re: Appraisal of siege/boat/ bridge mechanics etc

Posted: 2014-02-14
by Sir Tyriel Firebrand
I like it Valfryn. Cosign.

Re: Appraisal of siege/boat/ bridge mechanics etc

Posted: 2014-02-16
by Lord Valfryn
Or another option is if we use "net walls" as an actual structure it becomes WYSIWYG and that's that. Arrows missiles, whatever. Though I think it's easy enough to use the "lob in" rule for the "moat" scenario, with the walls being implied.

as to the "speed" of the ships, I'm sure some kind of boat expert can give us advice on which one is faster.

I definitely like the "phases" though on a boat battle, and using invulnerable planks.