Opening the Cavalier class

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Zentor
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Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Zentor » 2012-01-31

I have never been a fan of a character class that is restricted to players that self elect their members. This class should be open to everyone who plays Darkon. I am proposing that anyone with a 10th level Fighter can then become a Cavalier. These players must abide by all other restrictions of the Cavalier class, including the loss of the levels of fighter when taking the class.

From page 130 in the current rulebook:

Cavaliers

Cavaliers are a special character type in Darkon, permitted only to players who are Knights of the Realm and have fought and won a Noble Council tournament.


I would want to see this changed to:

Cavaliers

Cavaliers are a special character type in Darkon, permitted only to players who are members of that have a minimum of 10 levels as a Fighter.


I am not looking for suggestions, or discussion. I am only looking for the cosigners to put this on the agenda.

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Inox
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Inox » 2012-01-31

I will cosign. I have never liked the idea of class restriction, either.
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Prince Andrick
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Prince Andrick » 2012-01-31

Just curious, if you truly don't want the restricted class, why only 10th rank fighters? It would seem to me, if you want to do this, it should be opened to any player willing to give up a 10th rank character of any class.
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Lord Dubh
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-01-31

Duke Andrick wrote:Just curious, if you truly don't want the restricted class, why only 10th rank fighters? It would seem to me, if you want to do this, it should be opened to any player willing to give up a 10th rank character of any class.


I agree with this logic.
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Zentor
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Zentor » 2012-01-31

I choose fighters because they would be gaining the least in the way of armor, shield, weapon choice. As they already have access it all.

In my mind, the 10 levels of fighter is like a "Squire" period. Learning the base fighting skills, before the change to Cavalier to gain the spells.

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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Sir Caetrel » 2012-02-01

I firmly believe the class should be opened up to everyone. It would greatly add to the game because the class demands excellent roleplaying from the start.

I also firmly believe one should have to fight for the priviledge to play it. Remember, not even all Nobles can be cavaliers currently. Such a fight should be a standardized event spelled out plainly in the rules. There are a few options for this- winning some sort of championship, winning in a Noble Tourney-like setting, besting other contenders in a competition.

Darkon is made better by RP in every way. But when it comes down to resolution...we need to swing swords, not roll a D6.
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Calus
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Calus » 2012-02-01

I also think there should be some kind of rite of passage in order to obtain it. Anyone can get it, but like the above poster stated, you'd have to fight for it. Perhaps fighting another high level cavalier, I am not sure.
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Sir Tyriel Firebrand
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2012-02-01

I agree, you have to earn it.
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fingers630
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by fingers630 » 2012-02-01

Hey Andrick,

Just wanted to point out about becoming a cavalier, as we were talking about it Sunday at Senate. The current rule is

A character that chooses to become a Cavalier must forfeit all battle credits that have been achieved with his Noble character, and begin as a 1st rank Cavalier.

So by the letter of the rule, you would have to give up Andrick's 80 levels to play a Cavalier.
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fingers630
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by fingers630 » 2012-02-01

As far as earning the class, I think there should be other ways to do so without having to beat Malkin or Alfred in a 1v1 fight. There are those people who may wish to play the game, that don't have the same skill level as their betters and shouldnt be restricted as such.

I propose there should be several ways open to achieve this, with combat being one of them, and perhaps a quest, that could take up to a year to complete, proposed by current Cavaliers, as another one.
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Lord Dubh
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-02-01

fingers630 wrote:Hey Andrick,

Just wanted to point out about becoming a cavalier, as we were talking about it Sunday at Senate. The current rule is

A character that chooses to become a Cavalier must forfeit all battle credits that have been achieved with his Noble character, and begin as a 1st rank Cavalier.

So by the letter of the rule, you would have to give up Andrick's 80 levels to play a Cavalier.


A player can have more than one character that is a Knight.
So he could have a 1st ranked fighter named Sir Billbob and use him to become a Cav.
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Sir Martin of BAMC
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Sir Martin of BAMC » 2012-02-01

Please be advised that this topic is something that is already being addressed within the NC. I have been working on a proposal to open the cavalier class to non-nobles. There are some other proposals also being worked on within the NC and the intent is to wait until all of them can be looked at together before submitting them so that the wording of the proposals are consistent with one another.

Cavalier would still have to be EARNED and not just handed out to anyone with a 10th level character. The process of earning the class would be something that could be done entirely in-game without membership in the NC.

Really if you took away the need to earn the class you would ruin it completely. (Not to mention making the fighter class mostly obsolete). The challenge of becoming one is the most appealing thing about it.

Semi-related to this, the Noble Council is also working to establish a series of "orders" which can be earned by anyone for contributions to the club. Only one of the orders is tied to combat.

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fingers630
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by fingers630 » 2012-02-01

Lord Dubh wrote:
fingers630 wrote:Hey Andrick,

Just wanted to point out about becoming a cavalier, as we were talking about it Sunday at Senate. The current rule is

A character that chooses to become a Cavalier must forfeit all battle credits that have been achieved with his Noble character, and begin as a 1st rank Cavalier.

So by the letter of the rule, you would have to give up Andrick's 80 levels to play a Cavalier.


A player can have more than one character that is a Knight.
So he could have a 1st ranked fighter named Sir Billbob and use him to become a Cav.


Ok edited after I reread your post and the noble rules.
the only way a 1st level fighter could become a cavalier would be if after successfully petitioning to become a noble, the player makes a new character, and has that be his noble. This doesnt apply to Andrick, as Andrick the 80th level character, IS his noble character. And by the current wording of the rulebook, you MUST forfeit all credits for your noble character to become a cavalier.

So if Andrick wished to level a fighter to 10, repetition to become a noble with a second character, get accepted, he could then turn his fighter into a cavalier.
Last edited by fingers630 on 2012-02-01, edited 1 time in total.
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Lord Dubh
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-02-01

The short explanation:

The award is given to the player. If they choose to have more than one character that is a Knight it is up to them.

Fingers - I disagree with your interpretation based on the above.
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fingers630
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by fingers630 » 2012-02-01

really? has there ever in the history of the game been someone with multiple noble characters?

*edit*

well of course if a player can have as many noble characters as they want, the interpretation would be incorrect. however I do not see it stated in the rules that you can have multiple noble characters, nor have I ever heard of it being done in my 17 years. :)
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Lord Dubh
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-02-01

fingers630 wrote:really? has there ever in the history of the game been someone with multiple noble characters?

*edit*

well of course if a player can have as many noble characters as they want, the interpretation would be incorrect. however I do not see it stated in the rules that you can have multiple noble characters, nor have I ever heard of it being done in my 17 years. :)


I have two characters that are Knights.
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Inox
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Inox » 2012-02-01

Yes, it has been done, and is acceptable.

In fact, the NC has specifically discussed this. The award of title is no more permanently affixed to one persona than your Mage must always be played as Fingers. You could join a new country tomorrow, and play that Mage as someone totally different.

Obviously, by the time someone is a Noble, the game trusts that they have the discretion to do this (or anything else IC), in an equitable way that makes sense, and that tends to increase overall fun & RP.

I like the idea of fighting for Cavalier, but I make no secret of the fact that I do not like the way the ring fights among Nobles are conducted. Open to suggestions, there.
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Thrush Svartehjertet
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-02-01

Sir Martin of BAMC wrote:Really if you took away the need to earn the class you would ruin it completely. (Not to mention making the fighter class mostly obsolete). The challenge of becoming one is the most appealing thing about it.


How are you the only one to mention this? Why on earth would ANYONE play a fighter if all you gotta do is drop a 10th ranked fighter... Would'nt it make more sense to say all fighters who reach 40th level become cavaliers? Or something equally silly? 10 levels = cavalier is * retarded, thats a little over a year. With nothing other than a weak ass character traded in. Cavalier is supposed to be special, why is that bad?

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Thrush Svartehjertet
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-02-01

Also, these orders need to happen, and then be explained. They sound amazing.

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Lord Dubh
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-02-01

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:
Sir Martin of BAMC wrote:Really if you took away the need to earn the class you would ruin it completely. (Not to mention making the fighter class mostly obsolete). The challenge of becoming one is the most appealing thing about it.


How are you the only one to mention this? Why on earth would ANYONE play a fighter if all you gotta do is drop a 10th ranked fighter... Would'nt it make more sense to say all fighters who reach 40th level become cavaliers? Or something equally silly? 10 levels = cavalier is * retarded, thats a little over a year. With nothing other than a weak ass character traded in. Cavalier is supposed to be special, why is that bad?

Thrush
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In the counter-proposal I would expect to see a requirement to fight in the ring using the NC's rules.
Though, the Senate may not agree with this and just open it...

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:Also, these orders need to happen, and then be explained. They sound amazing.

Thrush
berserk


I would not say amazing...but yeah it's a long time coming. Having two awards, one no one wants...is stupid when every other organization and nice award systems.
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fingers630
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by fingers630 » 2012-02-01

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:
Sir Martin of BAMC wrote:Really if you took away the need to earn the class you would ruin it completely. (Not to mention making the fighter class mostly obsolete). The challenge of becoming one is the most appealing thing about it.


How are you the only one to mention this? Why on earth would ANYONE play a fighter if all you gotta do is drop a 10th ranked fighter... Would'nt it make more sense to say all fighters who reach 40th level become cavaliers? Or something equally silly? 10 levels = cavalier is * retarded, thats a little over a year. With nothing other than a weak ass character traded in. Cavalier is supposed to be special, why is that bad?

Thrush
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well if shield breaking were a fighter only ability....
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-02-01

Insanity, why would anyone ever propose something so massively game breaking... they'd be so dumb to think that would ever fly...

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Inox
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Inox » 2012-02-01

That's perfect. Do shieldbreaking as a Fighter-only, as a skill (Eliphas' proposal).

Release the Cavalier restriction on Nobility or fighting. Maybe increase the dislike for missile weapons to an actual restriction.
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Prince Andrick
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by Prince Andrick » 2012-02-01

I am kinda torn on this issue. I am ok with easing the restrictions, but it seems like just giving up a 10th level character is too easy. I'll be interested to see where this goes.
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fingers630
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Re: Opening the Cavalier class

Post by fingers630 » 2012-02-01

Well it depends on the pre-req. If they are something cool like a year long quest, OR defeating an existing cavalier in combat (or maybe multiple cavaliers with different weapon combos?) then it is still difficult.

One thing I would like to see is the possibility of being stripped of your Cavalier status if you do not adhere to the code. Perhaps a council of cavaliers/nobles decide your fate.

For example:

Sir Androke the Fighter becomes a Cavalier through his good deeds. For 6 months he is the perfect cavalier. After that, he begins slacking off, acting dishonorably, etc. Lord Falconbridge the Cavalier brings charges to his brethren that Sir Androke is acting in a manner unbefitting a Cavalier. 5 Judges meet, hear the charges, hear Sir Androke's defense and decide that he is no longer fit to be a cavalier. They judge that until something is done to atone for his actions, he is stripped of abilities, and becomes a rank X Fighter.

Adds some roleplay to the game, keeps the class from everyone gettting in with RP requirements.
Good Idea? Bad Idea?
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