Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

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Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Snudge » 2012-07-08

This thread is for discussion purposes. I'll edit it as suggestions I really like get put up

The following classes have a level 20/25 ability
Ranger-Exploration (25)
Thieves-Open hold portal objects(open locks improvement)/thief pouch (20)



Here are ideas for some of the classes that do not, I'm open to all suggestions.
Fighter- Level 25, leatherskin as the lvl 3 monk ability/cannot meditate to repair it.
Clerics-See A
Druids-See A
Mages-See A
Assassins- Level 25, their personal writ(10) gains last rites
Monks- Reduce their cure light wounds meditation from 60 seconds to 30 at lvl 25
Cavalier- Cure Mortal at 20
Warrior Mage- See A

A- All casters gain an additional potion/scroll point at 25
Last edited by Snudge on 2012-07-09, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-07-09

Like the idea

Dont like the idea of augmenting an ability that's already on the chopping block as it is (assassination).
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Ericson » 2012-07-09

Radical idea here. I really have no idea how to effectively implement it, or make sure that people are not cheating. To avoid the overpowered arguments, we are talking about high-level characters so I feel like there should be a bit of overpowering involved here. In DnD, a level 25 character is basically a demi-god, like Hercules. I'm just throwing out numbers, maybe Darkon's "Epic" characters start at 40?

Feats. Each class has a list of 5-10 feats that they can choose from when they are above level 20/25. Every 5-10 levels they pick a feat. Feats could be stuff like....

Fighters: Shield-Breaking with certain weapons, Leatherskin, Feign death (maybe?)
Spell Casters: various spell-casting abilities (I'm not familiar with them), shield proficiency(?)
Monks: Added weapon proficiencies, armor proficiencies,
Rogue-ish: Craft extra potions/poisons, up to 36" shield
Rangers: reduce enemies during a land search by 50%, enchanted arrow (2x damage arrow 1/day)

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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-07-09

If you are going that route, I would just toss evasion at monks/rogues (need direct hit with aoe weapons) and allow fighters to not lose their shields to lightningbolt, take fireball to armor (meaning if you have plate on all locations, you can take the fireball as black damage ) something of the like.
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by fingers630 » 2012-07-09

Beware the slippery slope of powers and skills. they ruined BWC. imagine a fighter mage that could throw fireballs, while wearing plate, using a tower shield, and doing triple yellow with a morning star. You just met my BWC character, and he wasnt even level 20.

If any classes get abilities (and personally I think if any class gets a skill over lvl 10 all should) they should be minor upgrades or role playing benefits.

Id love to see assassins get the ability to assassinate more people as GMs are just a dumb mechanic (sorry I cant kill that guy cause i didnt get permission from some schmuck that I have no affiliation with), however it would never happen unless assassinate was fixed to a limited time (1 hour).

Fighters getting leather skin as per monks would be cool, but it should not be meditate mended.

I dont like evasion just like inox doesnt like teleporting by squatting down. maybe allow monks to shrug off an aoe damage spell by losing their iron skin for that shot? ie a fireball hits next to a monk, he loses iron skin, but isnt mortalled.
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2012-07-09

I like Ericson's ranger thing about 50% of the monsters being removed. We could call it "Sniping" or something, and it is the act of the ranger stalking and picking off some of the monsters over the course of this search before bringing in everybody else.
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Ericson » 2012-07-10

What if Sniping (awesome name) was used in conjunction with other characters? Since we want to limit these new Epic-Level abilities to non-combat abilities, land rules may be a good place to put them in.

Example: Level 30 Ranger with Sniping has the option of bringing along one Level 30 PC. The character class of the other PC determines what the Sniping ability does. The ride-along characters would have to be level 30 themselves. Examples:

Ranger + Ranger/Monk = Combined, 50% of NPC's killed. With a solo Ranger, 25% are killed.
Ranger + Assassin = Highest level NPC is killed (assassinate)
Ranger + Fighter = All NPC's start out with 1 white hit on entire body (berserker)
Ranger + Mage = NPC's have no shields (lightning bolt pre-fight)
Ranger + Thief = Hex gets a 50% bonus to value (not sure how hex value is calculated, but thief is sneaky enough to find more valuable things on the hex)

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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Snudge » 2012-07-10

Hex value is calculated very simply. 500 silver per season for fertile hexes.
But I'm really trying to avoid buffing classes that already have a level 20 or 25 ability. Such as rangers or thieves. I'm not against the ideas, I just want to bring every class into line with a 20/25 ability. Adding things for levels beyond that is something for later.
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Lord Cailen Sendor » 2012-07-10

casters currently can not cast any spells if they have both arms wounded - you have to have one hand free to cast

one simple buff would be to allow all casting classes that have the spell cure light the ability to cast that spell to get 1 arm healed so they then can cast something else after.

clerics
monks threw mediation
cavileers
rangers
you could even allow a fighter with both arms wounded to "tough it out " and bind a wound allowing the use of the limb threw force of will (must bind it normally but during the time of binding the player must roleplay pain while tieing the bandage) or something like that

"Any class that can heal or bind a light wound on themselves (threw mediation skill or spell) upon obtaining 30th level (or x level) can use thier class healing (threw mediation skill or spell) on one arm of thier choice when both arms are light wounded bypassing the normal restriction on not casting unless one arm is free."
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by The Quiet Cleric » 2012-07-20

I think the Clerics/Druids/Mages/Warrior Mages thing about getting an extra potion/scroll point is seriously lame. Potions and scrolls can only be created on adventure days, so that's at least half the events that those four classes get zero extra benefit.


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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Snudge » 2012-07-21

Its the only thing I could think of, this thread was hopefully going to generate some discussion about what people want instead. If you have ideas I'd love to hear 'em
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Sir Sturmbjorne » 2012-07-31

Cleric/Mage/Druid*
--Make non-AOE spells AOE at 25 or whatever.
---AOE Lighting/Curse etc/Magic Missle... ^^
--More Spell points?
--Further spell reduction
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-07-31

I honestly think we should start taking things away. Nothing ever gets the nerf, we keep going up and up.
Re-draft all the character classes, whatever... but we really should try to get away from balancing by adding 3 to one and 2 to another, leapfrogging through OP abilities.

That's why I suggested abilities that negate all the confusing stuff. So at lv 25, a fighter doesn't have to give a hoot when everyone's yelling about lighting bolt, and a lv 25 monk/rogue doesn't give a rats ass about fireball unless he got hit dead bang will the ball himself.

I really want to get away from confusion killing more people than the fireball and breaking up perfectly good fun just to question each other about proximity.
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Ericson » 2012-08-01

Lord Valfryn wrote:I honestly think we should start taking things away. Nothing ever gets the nerf, we keep going up and up.


+1

I don't anyone expected 15 years ago that we would have folks with 100+ levels in various characters, so no epic level rules were ever made. Class re-write would be a great idea. Not without lots of :cry: though....

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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-08-01

I could see it being a salty ordeal. Everyone would want to keep all the things they can do already. I wouldnt even reset XP, just force them to play at least one event each level. So if i were to reset as a lv 15 character, I would advance at the rate of one level a week until I was flush with my previous scores, then would advance as normal. would give people a chance to learn the skills they are gaining at a better rate.
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Lord Cailen Sendor » 2012-08-01

ROFL :) so if we reset at level 15 then it would take me over 90 weeks /almost 2 years to get back to the level I have earned threw blood / heart attack and tears :) ok I only cry over bad movies.... but still :)
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Snudge » 2012-08-01

I'm open to any ideas if people think rewriting the classes is a better plan than giving out abilities at lvl 20/25.
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-08-01

honestly, getting (recouping) a lv an event might help attendance.
Especially if you could just consolidate creds/ lvs into whatever new classes you wanted to play.
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Xalias » 2012-08-06

Something I think would be cool for druids is improving their barkskin. Much like the spell in dnd, at higher levels the spell improves. Maybe allowing it to improve over AR 3, so when wearing hide and having the spell you would be put to chain. Another idea is improving their healing spells so they can cast cure mortal. A spell charm monster would be cool also.

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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by fingers630 » 2012-08-07

start over! woo hoo! at lvl 45 I can cast Cure Light Wounds again!

everyone would play fighters, we could change the name to Dag, and Thrush would be happy =P
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2012-08-07

Lord Cailen Sendor wrote:ROFL :) so if we reset at level 15 then it would take me over 90 weeks /almost 2 years to get back to the level I have earned threw blood / heart attack and tears :) ok I only cry over bad movies.... but still :)

Worse than that. Darkon doesn't happen every week, so it's closer to 4 years! (3 years and 44 weeks)
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2012-08-07

To be honest, even if a rulebook rewrite and everyone were to start over from scratch, what would stop things from getting bad again? Would we end up restarting everyones * every 20 years? That sucks pretty hardcore. I would hate to think of those people who have played one class since the start of their career and then have to start all the way over. This is not a MMO where you can just reroll and get to where you were in three days. Its takes years and years to get to where some of these people have gotten.
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-08-09

hell, I plan on working on something like this... but make it so that a player can keep playing their old chars (more or less), but the "new style" characters would be worth investing in.

Really, it's a game. I would start over tomorrow if the rest of the game did as well and it fixed the game balance issues. I really don't like the "add more endgame content" solution. I would like characters to reach max potential by lv 25. After that, you should work on becoming a better player, or diversify your character class roster.
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Sir Gwydion » 2012-08-30

But that's not what our game is about. The game has memory. Countries that are 25 years old; the Land Map; personal prizes won at a campout a dozen years ago.

These are part of what make Darkon an addicting and fun experience. The fighting is a strong part of what we do, but campouts and land events are similarly important and if we go and erase all that from the last couple decades, it does an extreme disservice to the folks who have come before.

Back to the OP, I think that high-level skills are fun, but remember that there are other benefits that come from great experience in the game that aren't quantified in the rulebook. Keldar's a good example of how his REPUTATION as LGKV has come before him. He's not the best fighter in the game, but people back away from him in a fight because he's got five times more levels than they have spell points. Andrick is similar. He's one of the highest-ranked clerics and when he's got his chain coif on, people go the other way rather than fight him. Is it because he's freakishly large or because he's got 90 or so levels in cleric? Tough to tell.
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Re: Level 20/25 Abilities Discussion

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-08-30

restarting the land map isn't my main dig, ya'dig? I'm talking about revamping some of the character mechanics for a game of our size/ player base. Our rules were based on a club half our size (or smaller). Battles needed to be longer when the 2 team was a 12v 12, but now it's just a little much.

Appropriate scaling is my goal, not to say I wouldn't cosign on drastic measures,as I would. I don't think they are totally necessary. The main problem with a total game wipe would be a big cry fest of the "haves" being on a level field with the "have nots" for a time being. Yea, I'm sure there was some roleplay over a decade ago and all kinds of reasons to sweat over things, but we shouldn't sacrifice the health of our games playability for a campout prize that doesnt get used or is overpowered/outdated for our current game.

We can honor the past, keep the flavor and all that, while still scaling our in game character developement.
If we need to give our vets lv 30 abilities to "honor the old ways", then I think we've gone a little far off the trail.
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