The Flight from Darkon

Forum for the discussion of proposals people would like to make.
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Lord Dubh
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The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-09-13

The Scourge came and few responded, the undead spread until they could not be stopped. Then the Plague returned...the Continent became too dangerous even for Darkonians...

They fled in ships of all sizes, going West where they found a new continent, uninhabited by the undead and unplagued and very few sentient races. This is where they would make their homes...Darkon would be born again in the New World.

This is a map reset. Current map is ripped up and an entirely new map is created with realistic landmass...Ice in the far north and south, deserts, rivers, bays, etc. I am talking a MASSIVE map, twice as large as what we have now but without the inner sea. Place island chains on a couple areas making one Tarimstad...etc.
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Thrush Svartehjertet
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-09-13

I have no problem with it. Some items on the map hold sentimental value... to some.

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Lord Valfryn
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-09-13

wouldnt bother me, so long as you put me within striking distance of nations on my * list 8)

Also: we might not even want to bother addressing the hows/whys of land shifting. There is no way to explain how a new country manages to form with an ancient history now, it just is. We RP ignorance all the time, this can be one of those instances.
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Inox
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Inox » 2012-09-13

What's the overall goal of this process?

I think there would be a lot of butthurt in the realm over it, and I am not sure "geographic realism" is a good enough reason to offset that.
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-09-13

would make more sense if it was coupled with an economic overhaul.
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Lord Dubh
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-09-13

Inox - Other than butthurt, why not? Of course that leads into my answer to Valfryn.

Valfryn - I think the RP reasons behind it are VERY important. Allows nations and characters to keep the history they have built for the past 27 years as part of the back-story. It also allows for future stories to continue from a set date and allows Darkon to have a calender system that is universal. We could do with less situations that can't be explained from a universe stand-point and this would help. I have land as a character that is important to the character and I loathe giving it up but happy to if it facilitates a larger map, better organized map and sets an RP stage.

This would include an economic reset as well...nations would only move that money that was in actual coin. Giving some countries a minor advantage.
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LordTyrantCort
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2012-09-13

Whose going to be first to place on the new map?
Allow countries to keep three prizes. I know this is selfish.
Make it so everyone starts with three hexes, and enough gold to search for a year with five men as a search party.
Make a new system of fertility. So we don't run into the same problem in five years.
Don't allow anyone to place on a coast. Or everyone places on a coast.
Rewrite forming countries so they only get three hexes.
This is some of the stuff I can think of for this to work.
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2012-09-13

Oh and good luck to siren the event before and after if this goes through.
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-09-13

Warlordcort wrote:Whose going to be first to place on the new map?
Allow countries to keep three prizes. I know this is selfish.
Make it so everyone starts with three hexes, and enough gold to search for a year with five men as a search party.
Make a new system of fertility. So we don't run into the same problem in five years.
Don't allow anyone to place on a coast. Or everyone places on a coast.
Rewrite forming countries so they only get three hexes.
This is some of the stuff I can think of for this to work.



These are GREAT ideas....it also removes the need to convert coffers to coin...or as part of it the coin simply ran out...after all who mints it for the realm anyway?? The king? each nation? Who knows and in this scenario who cares.

Hell, limit how often a country can do land searches too, to slow expansion. Instead of limiting it to rangers, limit to to country - a country can only search every other event. Thus reducing the number of land events per battle allowing more fighting.

I would not want anyone to keep prizes, unless they were mobile. Walls, castles, towers, etc can't be moved anyway. But to make a reset work it is best to not have any land assets move.

Who would be first? Roll for it??? 20 countries, a 20 sided die would determine it?? That way it is random.

Everyone starts on a coast? Sure, since that is where they would land first...cost hex and 2 adjacent for the initial 3.
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lynx- » 2012-09-13

removed
Last edited by Lynx- on 2012-09-13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lynx- » 2012-09-13

Also on the question of countries at war, Now there are far fewer hexes for an enemy to attack before getting to a capital hex, seems a bit unfair for some.

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Lord Dubh
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-09-13

Lynx- wrote:Also on the question of countries at war, Now there are far fewer hexes for an enemy to attack before getting to a capital hex, seems a bit unfair for some.


True. Less hexes, easier to beat unto submission....maybe a moratorium on wars for a period of time after establishing new land bases??

Lots of possibilities that would change the dynamic of the realm....some good some bad. That is what the forum is for :)
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Snudge » 2012-09-13

As the land marshal I would vote a hard no on a complete map reset. I have devoted far to much time to correcting the land database, and the map as a whole to simply want to wipe it away.
I understand that certain people want to see the long established countries get taken down a peg, but realistically. Alot of nations have stepped up to deal with the undead scourge.

However if we want to expand the map we certainly can. Hell I've even got some mechanics already worked up for that very thing
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Kel von Graymere
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Kel von Graymere » 2012-09-13

My initial thought is no.

On deeper reflection, my answer is still no.

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Lord Dubh
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-09-13

Snudge - Your time would not have been wasted. Lots of lessons learned from your experience can be passed on, and you worked hard to keep things moving forward. Do you have any reason other that your personal investment as to why this would be a bad idea??

Kel - Why not?

Seriously folks, what does anyone have to lose other than a fake world, on a fake map with fake land and fake money used by fake countries.

What I see us gaining is an opportunity to refresh the world game, reset the banks, and establish an RP story that impacts us all.
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Kel von Graymere » 2012-09-13

It's punitive to those that have been in the game the longest. Are you suggesting that Elidor should be equal to Kelbanistan, the imaginary country I just founded?

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Lord Dubh
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-09-13

Kel von Graymere wrote:It's punitive to those that have been in the game the longest. Are you suggesting that Elidor should be equal to Kelbanistan, the imaginary country I just founded?



Punitive implies punishment.

There is no punishment, there is only the world as we know it coming to an end and every nation running to a new world to continue its existence.

Would every country be equal upon landing on the new world? I do not know...I don't have a proposal I have an idea. Based on current comments, yes, they would be equal in size...but would a country fo 5 people REALLY be equal to a country of 30? ever?
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Siren » 2012-09-13

In general I don't like this.

First note being as the coin marshal I really emphatically dislike this. It lends to countries running through the amount of coin that I currently have which means no coin left in the bag. For the most part this becomes an issue during things like campouts where hosts like to have money to put on NPCs and that comes directly from the coin bag. It also leads to the same problem we had several years ago when the coin marshal wasn't coming out, which means coin becomes meager and people start to hoard it and don't bring the coin they do have out to events. Even right now, when I am out at every event with the coin bag it is always the same people who end up with money. I'd really rather not have to explain to people constantly that they can't pull money because there is none to pull.

And as a player, I still dislike this. I honestly think it would be better to simply expand the map rather than completely re-making it. As nifty as the idea of a new map is, I'm attached to my imaginary hexes of land. I like the prizes that My country and I worked our asses off to get-some not even a year old. Not to mention, there is a degree of history involved with some of those lands.

Why not introduce a mechanic that allows each country to scout for new continents or land masses in any direction from a current coastal hex? Consider landing parties, and the issues with creating a new 'colony' without being close to the home lands and supplies of said countries. But I feel like completely remaking the map is akin to throwing out the baby with the bathwater. It also negates years of work on the current land map that countries have put it in which is just something to make people in older countries grumpy.

What is the actual issue with expanding the land map while keeping what is there already?

and as for it being nifty rp wise...plenty of countries have repealed the undead invasion. If an honest rp reason comes up I am willing to take a look but what you've thrown out thus far just seems too thin to realistically do away with 20+ years of work and effort for a change to the landmap.
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Lord Dubh
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-09-13

I have no interest in expanding the land map. My interest is in destroying the world as we know it....

Let's be honest - there is nothing that would make this a worth while idea if you are so invested in your fake world and prizes.

Oh, and I have already heard the whispers so let me reply - I would get nothing out of this, at all.
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Cailen Sendor » 2012-09-13

I am sorry you wish to destroy darkon to remake darkon...

People on the current map have earned the right to be there they have protected thier lands some for over 20 years ... some like elidor have made thier country bigger within the rules without taking a single other countries land. There are things that can be done to liven up the map and to roleplay more - these things AGAIN can be done without destroying what we all have worked hard to create...

Roleplaying wise most of the current countries have repeled the undead invasion and without the assistance of the crown that should have been active in protecting all of its people. To say you wish to only make real coin worth anything only helps the people and countries that threw the years hord gold at home ... other countries only take out what they need from what they have earned the right to have honoring the game and the system we have in place. If I'm lucky enough to become king I will be active in making sure countries have sovernety AND protection reguardless of thier personal beliefs in addition I have some great ideas to liven up the map.

Now most established countries will not vote for this land change...
There is no roleplaying reason for it and it wipes our combined histories that all of us in one way or another have contributed to.
There is nothing stopping you or the land marshal from adding another continent or islands or anything else that would enlarge our map without destroying it.

There havd been land map changes before and they always added to what we had without destroying the history and past of the countries envolved.

Many of the vets in the game have given back hard coin to the game to help make sure there is coin to hand back out.

"These are GREAT ideas....it also removes the need to convert coffers to coin...or as part of it the coin simply ran out...after all who mints it for the realm anyway?? The king? each nation? Who knows and in this scenario who cares."

The answer to this is in the rules of the game any country or king can propose minting of coin and if approved pay for coin to be made that will be removed from the coffer it was drawn upon. Countries in the past have done this - several kings have done this ect...

"Hell, limit how often a country can do land searches too, to slow expansion. Instead of limiting it to rangers, limit to to country - a country can only search every other event. Thus reducing the number of land events per battle allowing more fighting."

You can do this now and tie it to the land being more wild and dangerous with stories of parties disapearing - you know working within the current rules in a way that benifits the game...

"I would not want anyone to keep prizes, unless they were mobile. Walls, castles, towers, etc can't be moved anyway. But to make a reset work it is best to not have any land assets move."

Not to be blunt but this is * what gives you the power to erase awards that were given to countries across the realm just cause you want a reset - many countries have worked hard for years gaining these things and you think its cool to just say "its a fake map so you should not worry about loosing anything" THEY GAINED THESE THREW REAL ROLEPLAYING -REAL FIGHTING - REAL EARNED AWARDS

sorry but this "idea" is uncool and is biased against the countries that have been here the longest as well as * to every country that has earned any land map item or place

If you want to destroy the world then raise a army and do it if you fail then we get to keep our fake world which to us we have earned the right to defend.
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-09-13

Pat,

Your response is full of emotion and your acting as if this is something that is going to happen rather than some random idea that got posted to the forums for people to comment upon.

I mean seriously, I have no power or authority to do anything except type on my keyboard and ask questions and give ideas.

I also do not appreciate the implication that I am some how trying to * people over. I thought you were one of the folks didn't jump to the assumption that I am somehow trying to ruin the game for everyone as so many people do. I am disappointed.

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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Snudge » 2012-09-13

Lord Dubh wrote:I have no interest in expanding the land map. My interest is in destroying the world as we know it....

Let's be honest - there is nothing that would make this a worth while idea if you are so invested in your fake world and prizes.

Oh, and I have already heard the whispers so let me reply - I would get nothing out of this, at all.


I have several problems with your statement. House Dubh is so invested in the fake world that it helped Nurgle win the campout. Yes it was epic RP, but your investment in our fake world had real implications for the land map. To follow that up, there is an inherent fallacy in your statement. You get exactly what you claim you want, as I quoted about. Your interest is in destroying the world as we know it. Should we scrap the map you get exactly what you want, so clearly you are getting something out of it.

To go back and address the issues I have that involves my time and dedication. Yes I could utilize the lessons I've learned but you say let's make the map twice as big. That involves even more work because I'll have to be the one using said knowledge to draw said giant map and place new countries on it, redo all the coffers, and completely redo the entire land database which current runs to 1509 land hexes, with 156 water hexes on top of that. For a grand total of 1665 hexes I track income for. All of which would be trash if we actually do this

In terms of an in game perspective my problem stems from the fact that only Carcosa and WAAAGH have let the undead spread. And the undead are being fought in those lands by people other than them. Now let's really rewind and remember just how the plague event played out. People literally burned hexes to prevent its spread, and Nurgle has a fountain that cures said plague. Our capital hex has been around since 95, we are not ok with abandoning Pitfist for any reason. It has 17 years of our blood, sweat, tears and at least 1 life dedicated to its existence.

Here is my simple solution to people that have a problem with the map. Stop making country, then you don't have to worry about the map, period. If you are currently not in a country, and have no interaction with the land map. I propose you propose nothing about it.

To close, yes I am very attached to the land map. No I am not against expanding it, or adding interesting mechanics to the land rules. But reasonable and logical baby steps please. Let's not just throw it all away.
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Lord Dubh
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-09-13

Whenever I state that I am not getting anything out of it, I specifically mean from an in-game perspective. I am not in a country, though there is land I am invested in keeping - so if the map were scrapped I would lose it as well. I am ok with it because I can see a greater and interested result...

I am sorry that so many people take this so seriously. It is just a game to me but apparently for some it is their life. I have lost so called friends and allies over proposals of mine that have passed, and I can already tell from forum posts and e-mails that if the map did get reset in any way the result would be the same, assuming I had friends and allies.

To be sure it is understood because through all the tears being shed over this IDEA that was posted one point has been missed. I am not interested in changing the current land map or the land rules (only in scrapping the whole thing). It is not a part of Darkon that I participate in unless asked and even then I don't really have a vested interest so I take my coin and move on.

Good luck with your little world.
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Lord Cailen Sendor
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Cailen Sendor » 2012-09-13

John I am sorry that I am full of emotion - in this case I think it is justified and in this case I did not imply you were trying to * people over but rather this "idea" would in fact * people over.

" I thought you were one of the folks didn't jump to the assumption that I am somehow trying to ruin the game for everyone as so many people do. I am disappointed."

On this matter I am not jumping to any assumption I am only stating facts - people have worked hard for thier fake world - I play in that fake world - I try and stand up for people when ever possible including but not limited to my own country - and I think this is a very very bad idea. You have known me a long time and although normally polite I do speak my mind when needed or when it is called for.

I in no way think you are trying to destroy "darkon" as a club but rather I believe you have been one of the hardest working people in our game threw the years - but that does not mean when a bad idea is presented I will not say it is a bad idea.

I hold no ill will toward you - nor do I have in my head I will support you in everything you do - nor will I avoid speaking against you when I believe it is justified. Every player in our game I treat with open mindness and evaluate communications with them as befitting how in turn they treat me. Our game is a gift in that so many people from so many different backgrounds are able to meet - fight - party - and have a great time without imposing social limitations or prejudgements based on where they are from or where they work or who are thier friends this is the one thing I love about our organization.

Sorry that I feel this idea sucks but it does suck :)
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by fingers630 » 2012-09-14

I dont see any real benefit in removing the land that countries have earned over a decade (s) from said countries. Unless of course you are completely rewriting the game, resetting everyone to level 1, and stripping all titles, awards, and abilities from everyone. Then by all means.
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