The Flight from Darkon

Forum for the discussion of proposals people would like to make.
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Arion_Lightseeker
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Arion_Lightseeker » 2012-09-14

Was the undead theme done in one event?

I have some ideas to throw around that may sound useful.

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Lord Valfryn
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-09-14

I am very active on the landmap, this will not change, new map or no. The only thing I care about is how the game is played. If how people play to have fun is changed, then it matters. Putting me on a new landmass is fine with me. I also think that resetting the hexes gives some countries motivation, which in recent years is in short supply.
I'm not the sentimental type. I don't romance last week's winning game, the only game I care about is the next week's.
I also love war. We play a WARGAME. I will not support a halt in any landwars for any reason, nor the expansion of the map. The map is fine. We never run out of land, the land is ALWAYS there. If we run out totally, lease land to "new countries" as far as I'm concerned. If there's no more land to search, there's always a solution for that... and I'm not talking about begging for more monster hexes to go after...

I would love to see what cormac could come up with for a new economy (country scale) while still keeping coin active (player scale).

EDIT: I see what you mean about the IC of the exodus. Since CB has put down all undead unrisings in its path, we will hold Carcosa /Waagh accountable for this.
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Ericson
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Ericson » 2012-09-14

Would be easier and less controversial to take a page from Blizzard. Whenever you want to do an expansion, add another continent. Or borrow the Burning Crusade/Risk 2210 A.D. idea and create an extra-planar/moon area to be conquered. Countries can spend XXX amount of resources and a mage can build a portal to this extra-planar area. Portal drops in a random spot determined by a dice roll. People can fight over that area.

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fingers630
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by fingers630 » 2012-09-14

Honestly Im on the committee for the undead event and have faced their forces I think once on the field. I have no idea what is going on with it, no one has cried for aid in character to me, Alfred has never brought it up, and Ive seen 0 undead activities since the initial ones at the beginning of the year. I thought the event fizzled out.

/shrug
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-09-14

they have been active on the landmap. mostly held in check.
only folk who have a problem are inactive. If I wasnt already invading someone, I would be invading them (if im killing undead on someones land, I want the land).
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Ogre Solaris
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Ogre Solaris » 2012-09-14

Fingers, do you not receive the emails from the plot committee site? We've been active all year, we even had our own NPCs in the last campout working their own agendas. To be fair, we do some of our discussions in person or via emails/facebook too so you wouldn't always see everything (I'm sure I haven't). As far as activity, most land searches seem to be against undead, there are invasions happening, and when people die at campouts, they come back as undead to fight against their former allies. It's been going on all year and no one's stopped it yet.

As far as the land map, I'm ok either way. I, so far, have not gotten majorly involved in it and even if I were, if some cataclysm happened and more or less erased it, then stuff happens, it's a game, I'll get over it. Kindred has its strategy regarding land and would like to see it fulfilled, but if we were forced to start over we'll adjust and form a new strategy. It's not like this will happen once every year or anything.

This reminds me of something I was told at campout. One of the guys from PA who joined us played NERO for a while up there at college and their characters and everything reset a few times a year. While I think that's excessive, resets aren't necessarily bad, sometimes they're warranted.
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fingers630
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by fingers630 » 2012-09-14

Yep I see something every now and again. I havent been to any of the Reunion campouts so I might have missed it there. I was speaking mainly from day battle experience and I think Ive only missed 2 this year.
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Inox
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Inox » 2012-09-14

Lord Dubh wrote:
I am sorry that so many people take this so seriously. It is just a game to me but apparently for some it is their life.

Good luck with your little world.


I'd be more likely to support scrapping roughly two decades of people's achievements if there were reliable indicators that this well-intentioned effort would bear fruit. For instance, the undead plot arc sounded good early on, but honestly, it's mostly involved people being conscripted as undead NPCs when they die at campouts. The realm has not been invigorated by it. A lot of people seem unaware of what's going on, or why.

That said, a lot of people's investment in Darkon comes from the fact that you level characters and develop countries over time. Sure, some people just fight, but the greater enduring world gives people tradition and tales to tell. It has an appeal; that doesn't mean people have no lives, just that they like building things up over time.

If this were not true, MMOs would not be so popular.

Plus, generally, resets of characters or plot in a LARP are kind of equivalent to having a nightclub event continually change schedules, or not happen on random weeks. Attendance drops like a lead balloon.

Ultimately, it sends the message that in-game achievement is valueless. We already know that this stuff means nothing in the real world; the game needs a certain stability to what people earn in order for them to care...beyond engaging some field fighting, that is.

Personally, I am not one of the people that cares about land. My country doesn't even land search. However, I know a lot of people do care about it, and resetting the map would be like Godzilla-stomping their sandcastles and telling them to enjoy the opportunity to rebuild.

As you say, it is a game, so the most important thing is to keep it fun. Feelings of futility run counter to fun.
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Lord Valfryn
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-09-14

quick and dirty: every country refounds, starting with 5 hexes + 3 hexes per year in existance. Haves have stay haves, have nots are still have nots... granted its not enough holdings to allow a team to "rest on their laurels"for years and stay ahead... but its still a huge boon.

easily explained by the larger/older countries having better resources to transport their citizens.

can even do placement based on team age, or even still a roll, like a d100 +2 per year in the game..
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Arion_Lightseeker
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Arion_Lightseeker » 2012-09-14

Why not have at every event, a "random event" occur in random countries, like say, a natural disaster, a rebellion/riot within said countrie(s), a warband of orcs, brigands, etc. marching around within a country. They could last for a set amount of events, with various affects on the landmap.

Natural disasters could make hexes of land unusable for a random amount of events. (earthquakes, wildfires, blizzards,)

Rebellions/riots within a countries borders would affect their defenses,coffers, etc. over a period of time. Same thing as warbands. (Filled out by NPC players)

Maybe having some NPC factions/countries with solid agendas affecting the whole of the Realm.

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Lord Valfryn
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-09-14

done this: only hurts smaller nations. the plague showed us that . (the plague was a scenario not unlike what you suggest).

the margin of wealth/ land holdings between the older and newer countries is so vast.
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Ogre Solaris
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Ogre Solaris » 2012-09-14

Arion_Lightseeker wrote:Maybe having some NPC factions/countries with solid agendas affecting the whole of the Realm.


Now there's an idea :)

That's what our world plot is supposed to be, but it's not on the scale of a world destroying event right now. Darkon is holding its own against the invasion.
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-09-14

Even better: how about PC factions rise up and oppose eachother? hmmmmm
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fingers630
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by fingers630 » 2012-09-14

Just curious, what does this achieve other than taking away land for taking away lands sake? This wont promote landwars. too many people have non agression pacts and wars make people butt hurt as 9 times out of 10 * flows over into out of character issues.
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-09-14

The key to DWC happiness: don't befriend Darkonian if you can't accept that they may turn their puffy soft swords on you some day.

I think the reason behind the "new map" is to promote aggressive and competative land searching, maybe even a new feel of exploration. Which is ok with me, so long as I can "explore" someone elses land.
I for one like the map getting thin, when resources get scarce, that's when great things can happen.

If there is no room to place a new country: a nation with 13 hexes to spare can then "lease" them the hexes... charge a fair tax, etc. more things to cause unrest, revolt, and Selvetarm willing: War.

Let the go-getters go get'em, let the laurel resters rest , let the butt-hurt be butt-hurt.
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Ericson » 2012-09-14

Lord Valfryn wrote:Even better: how about PC factions rise up and oppose eachother? hmmmmm


So Silly! Why start a war? It's only the Darkon Wargaming Club.

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Inox
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Inox » 2012-09-14

Yeah, tell me more after your first few wars.

Ultimately, I like coming out and having plenty of people to hit. I don't want to get on board with any plan that ends up making a lot fewer people come out...which too much war can easily do.
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Sir Tyriel Firebrand
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2012-09-14

To be honest, I think having a map and economy reset would be good for the game. I think its a good idea, but a lot of players don't wanna give it up. A more geographical, realistic map would be awesome, and I think countries searching and ACTUALLY FIGHTING EACH OTHER is something darkon needs and has not had in awhile.
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-09-17

I stopped caring about the map when it stopped being important to playing Darkon. Everyone wants to hold up the map as a trophy of things they've accomplished since the dawn of time. But no one is willing to do any more on it except new countries. If Elidor attacked New Mordom, or Nurgle went to war with Elidor or something like that, I'd buy this whole "my country did all this stuff and I don't wanna lose it" crap. All the map does currently is keep everyone holding hands and unwilling to fight. The map, as well as the current vets in charge of most of the nations of Darkon are keeping the game stagnant and boring.

Back when Keldar led Mordom and Aquilonia were real pirates, they marched to their own drum and were proud to just break down a gate at a campout to say "I'M * LORD GENERAL KELDAR, AND WE'RE HERE TO KICK YOUR ASS BECAUSE WE CAN!!!!" ...and it was good. Countries almost never teamed up, because adventures were specifically written to FORCE you to fight each other in this supposed war game. Winning mattered, winning over the other countries in the game, not just beating up NPCs.

The map is a paper tiger now. It is held up as proof of something that most nations are no longer: war machines. Chosen Blood may be the only actively warring nation left in the realm, though Ched Nasad seem to get themselves into plenty of boat battles where they can use their ballistas.

6 of us tried to engage multiple large forces at the last campout, they told us they "were not here right now" because they were waiting to go into a mod to fight NPCs. That is what the realm's unwillingness to fight each other has done, and the map is is the proof of it. Land search till it's full, and events will just be handholding and dick touching, cause no one wants to piss anyone off or lose their imaginary crap.

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Lord Valfryn
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-09-17

Let me know when there's some dick touching going on at camp outs, we may be forced to reconsider our stance on saturday events....
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by smelton » 2012-09-17

If it wasn't 3-4 hours each way, we already considered going to war for the hell of it. Maybe we will declare on someone before we come up next time. Given we aren't defunct before we can make it up again....

and dick touching is right up Tyrcathian alley ways.
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Sir Caetrel » 2012-09-17

You might be able to get a more productive conversation out of this by asking "If we started over with a new land map, and even new land rules, how would we do things differently and how could we make it more fun and meaningful?" Then people could posit all sorts of ideas and maybe come up with something that had a broad appeal. I.e. make plans for the new castle before tearing the old castle down.

Asking our Senate to throw out the land map is like asking the U.S. Congress to give themselves pay cuts. Every pair of Senate votes literally represents a pile of pixels that constituents have spents years building. You can't ask people to trash their years of work for a simple reset with no clear vision of a better future, without ruffling many feathers. However, I think Darkon is capable of rising above, of doing the right thing.

I would not favor a simple map reset. That would simply punish the old countries without effecting any real change, and in a decade we'd be back to square one with the same staleness, inflation, treaties, etc...It would take something fancy to warrant a change.

That said, our current system is pretty much broken and pointless. The rules are 10 years old, based on rules that are 20 years old, with a map that is over 20 years old. We should be creating the best possible land map/ land war rules in the world. Not clinging on to an antique.
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Ericson » 2012-09-17

So it really boils down to, how to allow new countries to expand and grow, while not punishing old countries for already having expanded and grown?

If Darkon was a game of DnD, and I was DMing, I would go with some sort of alternate-reality type story. Something like Evil Wizard #5 tries to banish the Darkon King to another realm, and succeeds. However the spell effects everyone the King has touched, who they touched, things they touched, etc., creating a cascade effect that takes everything from Darkon with it. Structures, money, people are all brought through and placed in an area similar to the Darkon continent, yet different (bigger). Old countries keep their stuff. New countries also keep their stuff, and have a larger landmap to expand on.

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Thrush Svartehjertet
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-09-17

Sir Caetrel wrote:That said, our current system is pretty much broken and pointless. The rules are 10 years old, based on rules that are 20 years old, with a map that is over 20 years old. We should be creating the best possible land map/ land war rules in the world. Not clinging on to an antique.
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Re: The Flight from Darkon

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2012-09-17

Thrush, Caetral and Bendore
Now i am not saying I don't see issues. But what exact points are broken?
Give some examples. One that I found is the gold to hex ratio is BAD, all you need is 27 hexes and you can declare war until Darkon dies. The coffers are where everything started to break. Lets get the people that what to fix the land rules/map together at the next event. Brain storm, and see what comes out of it (and some figt ing before and have)
Write down what's broken and how you think it would be fixed. I wonder what it what take to get Thrush into the map or land rules?
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