2012 Bylaws proposal draft 2

Forum for the discussion of proposals people would like to make.
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Re: 2012 Bylaws proposal draft 2

Post by President » 2012-10-11

Warlordcort wrote:Article of membership there are two "a"

Article IV.2
What is defined as eligible? Is it "members" at that day, or active "members",
Maybe "members" present at the day of senate should be added.

Those are the only two things I saw


Looks like a holdover from the original proposal you saw. When eligible applied to countries older than 3 months.

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Re: 2012 Bylaws proposal draft 2

Post by President » 2012-10-12

fingers630 wrote:Aside from changing Lord and Lady to Master and Mistress, I like it.


Tracy Soltesz wrote:Some changes I like, others I don't. Overall looks good. Though, who came up with the idea of replacing Lord and Lady with Master and Mistress. Maybe men don't realize this, but the term "Mistress" implies something that I don't think you are going after here in regards to awarding people with recognition. I certainly won't be going by Mistress Kesrya. I put my leather and whips away when I hit 30.


Master/Mistress have been terms of honor for far longer than they have been part of any sub-culture. If you wanted to think that way then "Sir' would be in the same situation.

Master/Mistress is also a title of honor in the SCA for people who have given much service to the organization.

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Re: 2012 Bylaws proposal draft 2

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2012-10-12

Membership
Membership is defined as groups organized by Participants in accordance with the Rules of Play of the Club.
Members may send representatives to the Senate.
Members may terminate their involvement at any time, ending the existence of the group.

A quorum is met when two-thirds of the Members eligible to vote send at least one Senator to the Senate meeting.

Unless I missed it, there isn't a 3 month "thing" for new countries. We removed it.

What I was meaning by my question was, for the last several years... quorum was set against the groups that made country at the event, not all the countries of the realm. Shouldnt this be reflected in the bylaws?
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Prince Andrick
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Re: 2012 Bylaws proposal draft 2

Post by Prince Andrick » 2012-10-12

Not the way I have done it this year. I have counted quorum based on all active countries.
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Re: 2012 Bylaws proposal draft 2

Post by President » 2012-10-12

Warlordcort wrote:Membership
Membership is defined as groups organized by Participants in accordance with the Rules of Play of the Club.
Members may send representatives to the Senate.
Members may terminate their involvement at any time, ending the existence of the group.

A quorum is met when two-thirds of the Members eligible to vote send at least one Senator to the Senate meeting.

Unless I missed it, there isn't a 3 month "thing" for new countries. We removed it.

What I was meaning by my question was, for the last several years... quorum was set against the groups that made country at the event, not all the countries of the realm. Shouldnt this be reflected in the bylaws?


Yes, it was removed. But the Magistrate and the EB can still determine eligibility, see the last clause of Magistrates duties.

Making country is not how we define membership though. We define membership as a country that is not defunct. The way the bylaws are worded would allow the Senate to change the rules for countries or any groups without changing the bylaws and make the type of change you suggest.

For example, you may add a rule to the RULEBOOK that states "...any country that does not field 4 members, a banner or elder tunic is not a valid country for that day. Should they not be valid for 6 events they are defunct and...." Such a statement WOULD remove them from quorum without anything weird in the bylaws.

As everything is worded now, a country simply has to be NOT defunct to count towards quorum, which is reflected in the current bylaws and how Tim has run them.

John M.

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Re: 2012 Bylaws proposal draft 2

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2012-10-12

Ok, thanks for clearing that up prez.
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Re: 2012 Bylaws proposal draft 2

Post by Kesrya » 2012-10-14

Per the Master /Mistress thing - why get rid of Lord/Lady? They are older in origin (12th century as opposed to 14th) and much more directly denote recognition of honor and social status. Plus there is really no negative connotation associated with either of these, whereas Master/Mistress not only is predominantly negative in current denotation, but doesn't really denote honor except in Scottish culture. Per the dictionary:

Definition of LADY
1
a : a woman having proprietary rights or authority especially as a feudal superior
b : a woman receiving the homage or devotion of a knight or lover
2
capitalized : virgin mary —usually used with Our
3
a : a woman of superior social position
b : a woman of refinement and gentle manners
c : woman, female —often used in a courteous reference <show the lady to a seat> or usually in the plural in address <ladies and gentlemen>
4
a : wife
b : girlfriend, mistress
5
a : any of various titled women in Great Britain —used as the customary title of (1) a marchioness, countess, viscountess, or baroness or (2) the wife of a knight, baronet, member of the peerage, or one having the courtesy title of lord and used as a courtesy title for the daughter of a duke, marquess, or earl
b : a woman who is a member of an order of knighthood — compare dame
See lady defined for English-language learners »
See lady defined for kids »
Examples of LADY

Her mother was always telling her to act like a lady.
He bumped into some lady walking to the bus stop.
He helped a little old lady cross the street.

Origin of LADY
Middle English, from Old English hlǣfdige, from hlāf bread + -dige (akin to dǣge kneader of bread) — more at loaf, dairy
First Known Use: before 12th century

Definition of MISTRESS
1
: a woman who has power, authority, or ownership: as
a : the female head of a household
b : a woman who employs or supervises servants
c : a woman who is in charge of a school or other establishment
d : a woman of the Scottish nobility having a status comparable to that of a master
2
a chiefly British : a female teacher or tutor
b : a woman who has achieved mastery in some field
3
: something personified as female that rules, directs, or dominates <when Rome was mistress of the world>
4
a : a woman other than his wife with whom a married man has a continuing sexual relationship
b archaic : sweetheart
5
a —used archaically as a title prefixed to the name of a married or unmarried woman
b chiefly Southern & Midland : mrs. 1a
See mistress defined for English-language learners »
See mistress defined for kids »
Examples of MISTRESS

Servants were required to do the mistress's bidding without question.
The dog was always obedient to its master and mistress.
the master and mistress of the house
a married man who has a mistress
His wife suspected that the woman she'd seen with him was his mistress.

Origin of MISTRESS
Middle English maistresse, from Anglo-French mestresse, feminine of mestre master — more at master
First Known Use: 14th century
Related to MISTRESS
Synonyms: concubine, doxy (also doxie), other woman, woman
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Re: 2012 Bylaws proposal draft 2

Post by President » 2012-10-14

Short explanation. Lord of the Realm was used to replace Knight Errant to reduce confusion. Well, it didn't work due to Knights of the Realm using both Sir/Dame and Lord/Lady. Even at the feast a person referred to a Lady of the Realm as a non-voting Noble.

So, we are totally doing away with Lord/Lady of the Realm.

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Prince Andrick
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Re: 2012 Bylaws proposal draft 2

Post by Prince Andrick » 2012-10-14

Just noticed one of the awards is called the order of the boar but the description refers to it as the order of the eagle. Should probably fix that.
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Re: 2012 Bylaws proposal draft 2

Post by President » 2012-10-15

So a question for the readers here and I will ask the Senate again on Nov. 4th.

We would like to incorporate a clause from the current bylaws into the new bylaws related to mandatory sentencing for activities.

To be specific we want to put Article II Section 1.f into the proposal. It reads:

Any member found using and/or possessing illegal substances shall be subject to suspension from active
participation for no less than three months. Upon a second violation of this policy, the member shall receive
permanent expulsion from the Club


It would go into Article II Section 1 of the proposal.

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Re: 2012 Bylaws proposal draft 2

Post by mardux zulammar » 2012-10-15

I'm down with adding that, but should something be said about otc medications that aren't in the original packaging, for example that snack size baggie with tylenol and motrin in it (since last I heard, and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, even that was technically illegal while crossing state lines)?
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Prince Andrick
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Re: 2012 Bylaws proposal draft 2

Post by Prince Andrick » 2012-10-15

I am fine with that being added. I am fairly certain OTC meds can be in any container and still be legal. The bigger issue might be someone who has prescription meds in a plastic baggie. While it maybe legal, it would sure be hard to prove without the bottle. However, should it happen the EB could always require the individual to bring proof of the scrip or face the consequences, problem solved.

John, I also think we should add an option for those elected this fall who would be re-elected in May to serve for a year and a half instead of half a year. Let Senate decide which way that should go.
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Re: 2012 Bylaws proposal draft 2

Post by President » 2012-10-15

Prince Andrick wrote:John, I also think we should add an option for those elected this fall who would be re-elected in May to serve for a year and a half instead of half a year. Let Senate decide which way that should go.


We will be asking the Senate this exact question on the 4th.

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Re: 2012 Bylaws proposal draft 2

Post by President » 2012-11-01

Reminder:

Please actually READ this before Senate. We will not be reading each and every section again as that takes about 4 hours with discussion. Read it, come to Senate, ask questions, make arguments and make changes.

FWIW - Lord and Lady are going away as an award separate from Knighthood. Squire is already in use. Master and Mistress have been used by the SCA since the 70's with success and given to people who have worked REALLY hard for that organization and hold it as an honor.

This is not being voted on at the Nov. 4th meeting.

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Re: 2012 Bylaws proposal draft 2

Post by fingers630 » 2012-11-02

tracy and I shall be senators that day. i know what we will be voting no on =P
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Re: 2012 Bylaws proposal draft 2

Post by mardux zulammar » 2012-11-02

Oh. I thought I had replied to this back when I mentioned it before, but I called a local police station and the officer I spoke with said that it is indeed illegal to transport even otc meds outside of the original container. Just fyi
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