Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Forum for the discussion of proposals people would like to make.
User avatar
Sir Tyriel Firebrand
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 369
Joined: 2012-01-26

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2012-10-24

I would be down for this if it made Black glaives and axes, as well as big hammers and clubs over a certain length shield breaking. Keep the same shield breaking rules though.
~No Quarter!~
~Warriors Guild~
~Knight of Tuesday~
~"Winning is teaching, losing is learning"~

Sir Aethilgar
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 258
Joined: 2012-09-26

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2012-10-24

Gor Strayhorn wrote:Gwydion,

1. Well a proposal needs cosigners before it can be voted on in Senate.

2. Discussion of the proposal is welcome. However, talking about things that are not going into the proposal only muck up the actual discussion based on the proposal. Adding white axes or black glaives is not in the proposal. Adding a new mechanic of shield points is not in this proposal.

3. There is no tactics change. This is merely taking a "weapon enchantment" (Shield destroying)" and turning it into an ability. If this proposal were to pass, no change in tactics is necessary. Its not like you as a warrior are changed in anyway by making this an ability.

I'm not trying to stop you from flushing out your ideas, I am trying to keep this thread cohesive and on task. Want to introduce a 4 point shield system? Make a new proposal. Want to add weapons to a list? Make a new proposal.

Like I said, I'm not trying to stop you from making your own point, but I want this thread to have focus.

Thanks.


Basically... you want to take the shield breaking properties away from the weapons and put them into the fighter and cavalier classes for the same weapons, correct?
Baron Aethilgar Sheldwich

Facta non Verba

"Arguing on the forums is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After some time, you realize that you are getting dirty, but the pig is actually enjoying it."

User avatar
fingers630
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 1613
Joined: 2012-01-11
Location: In his Anti Magic Pants

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by fingers630 » 2012-10-24

sorry i have no issues with shield breaking weapons but will vote no to any proposal that breaks mages shields in 1 hit.

mages are gimped enough in 2 team battles as it is, especially since most of us DONT throw fireballs in 2 teams, we just fight.
Justicar Lucius Alexander Crum
Archmage of Elidor and Lord of the Realm
Queen of the Silly People

______________________________________________________________________
"I'll grapple with greasy fingers... Just sayin'..."-Thrush

Sir Aethilgar
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 258
Joined: 2012-09-26

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2012-10-24

fingers630 wrote:sorry i have no issues with shield breaking weapons but will vote no to any proposal that breaks mages shields in 1 hit.

mages are gimped enough in 2 team battles as it is, especially since most of us DONT throw fireballs in 2 teams, we just fight.


Gor Strayhorn's current proposal does not involve changing the number of hits to shields or adding white axes to the list of shield breakers.
Baron Aethilgar Sheldwich

Facta non Verba

"Arguing on the forums is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After some time, you realize that you are getting dirty, but the pig is actually enjoying it."

User avatar
fingers630
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 1613
Joined: 2012-01-11
Location: In his Anti Magic Pants

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by fingers630 » 2012-10-24

awesome, I have no issue with that one then. :)
Justicar Lucius Alexander Crum
Archmage of Elidor and Lord of the Realm
Queen of the Silly People

______________________________________________________________________
"I'll grapple with greasy fingers... Just sayin'..."-Thrush

Gor Strayhorn
Posts: 51
Joined: 2012-06-08

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by Gor Strayhorn » 2012-10-24

Sir Aethilgar, exactly. It will open up weapons to other classes and give fighters and cavaliers another ability. Nothing fancy, just baby steps.
Gor Strayhorn
Great Wolf - Battle Leader of Asaheim
Warden and Warhound of Asaheim
First Ranger of Asaheim

HRH Malkin
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 82
Joined: 2012-01-19

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by HRH Malkin » 2012-10-24

OK I am not sure what the proposal is that people are talking about.

My take, from reading this thread is:
1) You take away all references of SB from the weapon types
2) You allow Fighters (and Cavs) the SB ability at X level (e.g. 15th for a fighter and 5th for a cav, since cavs drop a level 10 characterto play one.)
3) you state the weapons that can be used by the SB ability (e.g. all 2-hand swinging [no glaives or greatswords])

I might also put a #4 in there so that people know when a shield breaking player is standing in front of them... Possibily a white sash with a black shield on it (must be at least 3" wide and visible from the front)... to wear on the belt... Why a sash? cuz sashes are cooler than headbands & armbands and all the head and armband colors are taken anyway...

User avatar
Kobalos
Moderator
Posts: 215
Joined: 2012-01-06
Location: Paledor
Contact:

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by Kobalos » 2012-10-24

HRH Malkin wrote:I might also put a #4 in there so that people know when a shield breaking player is standing in front of them... Possibily a white sash with a black shield on it (must be at least 3" wide and visible from the front)... to wear on the belt... Why a sash? cuz sashes are cooler than headbands & armbands and all the head and armband colors are taken anyway...


Keep in mind that white sashes are currently used for Good Cavaliers. I'd just go with a hearty "Shield Break!" to let the opposing combatant know what you're up to.
--Κοβαλος

Baron Kobalos
Fauzi ibn-al-Rashid al-Halabi, KR, OR, CB
Steward of House Dubh
Director, First Royal Darkon Trust
Head NC Armor Marshal 2014

Sir Aethilgar
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 258
Joined: 2012-09-26

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2012-10-24

I understand, Gor, and don't disagree.

HRH Malkin, I think that adding more insignia to the field would not be a service. There is already a veritable cornucopia of signs and heraldry already on the field such as to make one's head spin. Simply striking the shield and calling "Shield Breaking 1, 2, & 3!" should be enough, don't you think?
Baron Aethilgar Sheldwich

Facta non Verba

"Arguing on the forums is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After some time, you realize that you are getting dirty, but the pig is actually enjoying it."

User avatar
fingers630
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 1613
Joined: 2012-01-11
Location: In his Anti Magic Pants

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by fingers630 » 2012-10-24

Perhaps a colored tape MUST be on the weapon? Is there a bright color we havent used (pink, orange?) to denote that this weapon is capable of shield breaking?

Personally I will still assume anyone holding a black axe can break my shield with it
Justicar Lucius Alexander Crum
Archmage of Elidor and Lord of the Realm
Queen of the Silly People

______________________________________________________________________
"I'll grapple with greasy fingers... Just sayin'..."-Thrush

Sir Aethilgar
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 258
Joined: 2012-09-26

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2012-10-24

fingers630 wrote:Perhaps a colored tape MUST be on the weapon? Is there a bright color we havent used (pink, orange?) to denote that this weapon is capable of shield breaking?

Personally I will still assume anyone holding a black axe can break my shield with it


The trouble is that it is not the 'weapon' that is breaking shields, it's an ability. The weapon could, technically, be used by other classes who can not break shields. Shouting the ability; much like a spell, should work, no?
Baron Aethilgar Sheldwich

Facta non Verba

"Arguing on the forums is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After some time, you realize that you are getting dirty, but the pig is actually enjoying it."

User avatar
Sir Tyriel Firebrand
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 369
Joined: 2012-01-26

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2012-10-24

I agree with just yelling it. We don't need more tape colors and symbols.
~No Quarter!~
~Warriors Guild~
~Knight of Tuesday~
~"Winning is teaching, losing is learning"~

User avatar
Lord Cailen Sendor
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 571
Joined: 2012-01-10
Location: Tarimsdadt conducting interviews for new members of the Royal Court
Contact:

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by Lord Cailen Sendor » 2012-10-24

where is the "like" key rofl
++ Respect those above your station and train others under you to surpass your achievements - while you treat others with the respect you expect to receive in return! ++

User avatar
Lord Valfryn
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 761
Joined: 2012-01-10
Location: The Bloodspire Mountains
Contact:

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-10-24

Cosign to make SB a fighter/cav ability



Side note one 1h SB: dual wielding white axes vs shield... not sure if I like that. I would also give SB to maces/1h hammers of a certain dimension as well, while we are at it.
Image

User avatar
fingers630
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 1613
Joined: 2012-01-11
Location: In his Anti Magic Pants

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by fingers630 » 2012-10-25

1 hand shield break makes the relic that does that worthless.
Justicar Lucius Alexander Crum
Archmage of Elidor and Lord of the Realm
Queen of the Silly People

______________________________________________________________________
"I'll grapple with greasy fingers... Just sayin'..."-Thrush

Sir Aethilgar
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 258
Joined: 2012-09-26

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2012-10-25

fingers630 wrote:1 hand shield break makes the relic that does that worthless.


The proposal does not include one-handed shield breaks.

I also second the proposal to make shield-breaking a fighter/Cav ability activated on specific great weapons as noted in the rulebook.
Baron Aethilgar Sheldwich

Facta non Verba

"Arguing on the forums is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After some time, you realize that you are getting dirty, but the pig is actually enjoying it."

HRH Malkin
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 82
Joined: 2012-01-19

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by HRH Malkin » 2012-10-25

The issue here is as a shileman you won't know who's an SB-er or not until they actually come out and yell it... So that gives them a big upperhand. Colored tape on the weapon could work... but we already have all sorts of colors for weapon tapes (green, black, yellow, white, red, purple... all mean stuff, so we're running out of colors). And if you color a weapon as a SB.. then a non SB-er picks it up... it would look like they can break a shield with it, when they can not.

It should be known (just as with combative ability in the game) that the person in front of you can break your shield, if they are able to do so.

We already have armbands and headbands to denote specific things... and their colors are already taken up...

A frontal sash would denote that this CHARACTER can break the shield (and not the weapon). I get that white means a "good" cav... How about an orange sash? That's pretty visible and wouldn't be confused with anything else...?

User avatar
fingers630
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 1613
Joined: 2012-01-11
Location: In his Anti Magic Pants

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by fingers630 » 2012-10-25

"If I see a red sash, Im killin the man wearin it..."- Wyatt Earp
Justicar Lucius Alexander Crum
Archmage of Elidor and Lord of the Realm
Queen of the Silly People

______________________________________________________________________
"I'll grapple with greasy fingers... Just sayin'..."-Thrush

Sir Aethilgar
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 258
Joined: 2012-09-26

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2012-10-25

How are shield breaking weapons noted on the field currently? Right, they are not marked.

So, assume that all weapons of the current shield breaking style are still shield breaking... and you'll be pleasantly surprised on the rare occasions when they are not used by fighters and cavaliers.
Baron Aethilgar Sheldwich

Facta non Verba

"Arguing on the forums is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After some time, you realize that you are getting dirty, but the pig is actually enjoying it."

User avatar
Kobalos
Moderator
Posts: 215
Joined: 2012-01-06
Location: Paledor
Contact:

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by Kobalos » 2012-10-25

Sir Aethilgar wrote:How are shield breaking weapons noted on the field currently? Right, they are not marked.

So, assume that all weapons of the current shield breaking style are still shield breaking... and you'll be pleasantly surprised on the rare occasions when they are not used by fighters and cavaliers.


Agreed.

Example: I see a guy in full plate with a great axe. It's a Fighter, or a Cav if I see a sash. Plan on shieldbreak.

Example 2 (assuming this passes and Rangers get to use axes): I see a guy in chain with a great axe. Could be a fighter, and therefore could be a shieldbreaker. Watch out.

Not everything has to be designated with a sash/headband/armband. I'd prefer to use those items for abilities that are not otherwise apparent.
--Κοβαλος

Baron Kobalos
Fauzi ibn-al-Rashid al-Halabi, KR, OR, CB
Steward of House Dubh
Director, First Royal Darkon Trust
Head NC Armor Marshal 2014

HRH Malkin
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 82
Joined: 2012-01-19

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by HRH Malkin » 2012-10-25

How are shield breaking weapons noted on the field currently? Right, they are not marked.

So, assume that all weapons of the current shield breaking style are still shield breaking... and you'll be pleasantly surprised on the rare occasions when they are not used by fighters and cavaliers.


They are not Marked because A) they are known and B) Weapons themselves have always denoted the damage that can be done by them. And people are talking about adding other weapon types (which previously never were shiled breaking weapons... (like two handed hammers and maces... etc) also... other folks were talking about 1-h SB.

That siad, we are changing a major mechanic in the game... Now we're syaing that the weapon doesn't denote the damage, but the class does. I think this is a major change which should be easily distinguished.

Pretty much every other ability in the game is visible when it comes to combat (burning hands, Magical armors, Magic weapons, holy weapons, hidden armor, Country affiliation... etc...). So why make all those all readily apparent, and not this ability?

To put it a different way... Why should we wear surcoats, or wear armbands when armor is hidden? These are mechanics that we force to be visible... yet for some reason people seem to feel that knowing the guy can break your shield should be a secret...? That logic makes zero sense to me.

This also prevents the cheese of dressing up like your mage character but atcually playing a fighter... just so you can get the jump on folks.

Honestly it puts: big, slower moving, tower-shield toting guys at the biggest disadvantage... since they'll have the least time to react to it. I am simply trying to denote consistency throughout the rules, but if everyone wants to guess at this one ability... so be it.

I'd advise against it... but I don't really care THAT much.

User avatar
fingers630
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 1613
Joined: 2012-01-11
Location: In his Anti Magic Pants

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by fingers630 » 2012-10-25

easy solution. Cavaliers and fighters are required to wear giant pink cowboy hats!
Justicar Lucius Alexander Crum
Archmage of Elidor and Lord of the Realm
Queen of the Silly People

______________________________________________________________________
"I'll grapple with greasy fingers... Just sayin'..."-Thrush

User avatar
Lord Valfryn
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 761
Joined: 2012-01-10
Location: The Bloodspire Mountains
Contact:

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-10-25

I am not going to vote for anything else that ruins good costume. Armbands are ugly, costume ruining devices that serve very little in the battle against "hit sloughers".

I don't like the orange headbands on monks, I certainly don't like orange sashes on fighters.
This is why I would love to see the sweatbands go away entirely (another discussion).
Image

Sir Aethilgar
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 258
Joined: 2012-09-26

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2012-10-25

Lord Valfryn wrote:I am not going to vote for anything else that ruins good costume. Armbands are ugly, costume ruining devices that serve very little in the battle against "hit sloughers".

I don't like the orange headbands on monks, I certainly don't like orange sashes on fighters.
This is why I would love to see the sweatbands go away entirely (another discussion).


QFT
Baron Aethilgar Sheldwich

Facta non Verba

"Arguing on the forums is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After some time, you realize that you are getting dirty, but the pig is actually enjoying it."

User avatar
Sir Sturmbjorne
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 245
Joined: 2012-06-11
Location: The Black Tower
Contact:

Re: Fighter Ability: Shield Breaking

Post by Sir Sturmbjorne » 2012-10-31

Gary has a good point. Every other game mechanic or ability has some way to show everyone that things arent quite what they seem and give each person a way to note things like the magical armor we wear, or the burning hands or armor hidden; Why should this be any different? Unless we take away armor arm-bands; whats the difference.
I'm sure we can think of something that works.

Some specific colored glove/wrist something or other; might work; as you are most likely going to see their hand before/as it is being swung at you.
Baron Wulfvin Sturmbjorne, KR, OSW, CC, OD, CM(Druid)
Knight of the Realm
King of Asaheim
Huskcarl and Jarl of Asaheim
President 2015
"Bound by honor, Released in death" - Felgardian Contract of Arms

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests