Shield Breaking Hits Reduction

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shroom2021
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Shield Breaking Hits Reduction

Post by shroom2021 » 2012-10-25

Branching off of the other sb topic to avoid any confusion in that thread.

!!!!!This would be proposed only if shield breaking is approved as a fighter/cavalier ability rather than a weapon attribute.!!!!!

I would like to help bring more shield breaking to darkon by extending shielding breaking to one handed axes and adjusting the required hits to break a shield/buckler accordingly.

Currently shield breaking requires 3 strong hits to a shield/buckler to destroy them.

I would like to try the following:

1 handed axes in the hands of fighter/cavalier now do shield breaking

Hits to shield break are as follows:

2 handed shield break weapons - 2 hits to destroy a shield, 1 hit to destroy a buckler

1 handed shield break weapons(currently only axes) - 4 hits to destroy a shield, 2 hits to destroy a buckler


I think this change would bring out a few more shield breakers, mix up things on the line a bit more, and reduce the effectiveness of buckler armor.

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Thrush Svartehjertet
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Re: Shield Breaking Hits Reduction

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-10-26

Fundamentally sound idea. I would have no problem with this, or my idea of anything over 5 feet in the hand of a fighter/cavalier...


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Thrush Svartehjertet
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Re: Shield Breaking Hits Reduction

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-10-26

as mentioned in the other thread, you'd have to talk about that one relic and florentine...

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PS: you know this'll never happen.
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fingers630
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Re: Shield Breaking Hits Reduction

Post by fingers630 » 2012-10-26

unless you change mage's shields to actual shields regardless of the size limit, i will vote no against this and pay others to.

or if it passes, I will fireball you every single two teams i am in. both of you :)
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shroom2021
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Re: Shield Breaking Hits Reduction

Post by shroom2021 » 2012-10-26

Fingers, I read the following:

"Shields that fasten to the arm, leaving the hand free, are called bucklers."

"this includes mages shields; if they follow the specifications, outlined in
the rulebook, for bucklers" (pg 19)

As such:

If the mage has not strapped the shield to his/her arm, it is not a buckler and therefore meets the requirements to be a shield.

To address the relice, we could make the following change to keep it powerful:

Change:
"Ravenswrath deals magic white damage, however, in the hands of a Fighter, the axe destroys shields with three direct blows (two for bucklers) and allows its wielder to stand tall against giant-sized players and creatures. Any class capable of using white axes may use Ravenswrath."

To:
"Ravenswrath deals magic white damage, however, in the hands of a Fighter, the axe destroys shields withTWO direct blows (ONE for bucklers) and allows its wielder to stand tall against giant-sized players and creatures. Any class capable of using white axes may use Ravenswrath."

This makes Ravenswrath function as a two handed shieldbreaker in the hands of a fighter.

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Lord Valfryn
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Re: Shield Breaking Hits Reduction

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-10-28

ravenswrath will not be a turd any longer = win

I liked mages getting regular bucklers rather than the ugly yellow ones. Anyone know why that prop failed?
Image

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Lord Cailen Sendor
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Re: Shield Breaking Hits Reduction

Post by Lord Cailen Sendor » 2012-10-28

One thing I would like to point out if we went to 2 handers breaking sheilds in 2 hits that is basically what Dagorhir currently uses in thier "red" weapons which 2 hand swords are a part of - I think it is fine for them in many ways as they tend to wear at most leather and armor only gives 1 hit from some weapons and some weapons go straight threw armor reguardless of what the armor is made from - they do not typically wear plate and they do not allow metal on elbows or knees most wear leather as it gives the same minor protection that steel does...

That being said our game has always made it so that armor ... and also sheilds can take extra hits - the fights are longer - armor has more meaning - and shields have more meaning ... and that is why years ago I chose back then to fight more darkon then Dagorhir. Dagorhir fights are quick they tend to be very enjoyable and less issues with rinohiding. But Darkon is darkon ... the sheilds last longer the armor means more - the shields have a 1/2 wood core (where Dagorhir can be just foam with no "core" of plywood) which to me means a more gritty sluggish real fight that takes strength and willpower to keep going in our armor and sheilds make fighting have a greater real feel and really really are a workout that is steeped in strength AND fitness speed. When I want to go fight Dagorhir I enjoy it for what it is, and when I fight Darkon I fight it for what it is which for me points out the strengths and weeknesses of both systems which I enjoy trememdously.

Please do not change Darkon to Dagorhir its different and it should stay different so we can ejoy both to the fullest extent for what they provide in how they aproach fighting with foam.

P.s. if you allow one handed axes to break shields even in 5+ swings ... I would hate to see the result shields would start being usless how many fights have you been in that you managed to block or hit the other players shield with a one hand weapon ... it would become like a drum feast more then we currently see when one player gets behind another ... wack wack wack wack wack shield gone ... no finess no advanced blocking OR striking to get around the shield it would just be a roll up and swing away at the fences as fast as you can as strong as you can to make the blows legal ... I would not want to see us go that route it would take away from the huge advances we have seen in skill on the field and detract from what constutes a good fight
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fingers630
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Re: Shield Breaking Hits Reduction

Post by fingers630 » 2012-10-29

Lord Valfryn wrote:ravenswrath will not be a turd any longer = win

I liked mages getting regular bucklers rather than the ugly yellow ones. Anyone know why that prop failed?


how is swinging a 1 handed axe and breaking a shield in 3 hits a turd? a cleric with MoD can * up a shield wall with MoD and tower shield.

mages shields are yellow as using a normal buckler would make you susceptible to Warp Wood once more. Im fine with mages that use a normal buckler and give up the bonus of not having a wooden shield, but I could care less what color my cover is. there is plenty of "ugly" at darkon already, and getting rid of yellow shields isnt high on my priority list.
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Re: Shield Breaking Hits Reduction

Post by President » 2012-10-29

So you want to add some of the issues we have with armor in our current system to shields??

Example:

My shield just took 1 shield break from a two handed weapon and 1 from a single handed weapon...at what point is it destroyed??

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Re: Shield Breaking Hits Reduction

Post by shroom2021 » 2012-11-01

President wrote:So you want to add some of the issues we have with armor in our current system to shields??


We could always parallel Inox's armor proposal. Shield have 4 hit points. Bucklers have 2 hit points.
One handed axes deal 1 pt to shields
2 handed axes deal 2 pt to shields.


Calien,
I am not trying to turn Darkon into Dagohir, but I do understand your concern. I would like to see more axes and shield breaking weapons on the field. Currently axes do not get used as often as they could because unlike a sword they tend to be bulky and unbalanced (with some expections). If they had some additional value we may see some more fighters using them over swords, but I don't envision ever person in Darkon doing away with a sword for a shield breaking axe. Please keep in mind that this proposal only applies if shield breaking is reserved as a fighter/cavalier only skill so it would not apply to everyone.
This proposal also does not extend to any other weapon that is not already listed as shieldbreaking and only adds the attribute to one handed axes.

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fingers630
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Re: Shield Breaking Hits Reduction

Post by fingers630 » 2012-11-01

shroom2021 wrote:
President wrote:So you want to add some of the issues we have with armor in our current system to shields??


We could always parallel Inox's armor proposal. Shield have 4 hit points. Bucklers have 2 hit points.
One handed axes deal 1 pt to shields
2 handed axes deal 2 pt to shields.





no.
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TitusV
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Re: Shield Breaking Hits Reduction

Post by TitusV » 2012-11-02

Im with Cailen on this. I don't like the proposal and plan on voting against if it goes to senate.

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Re: Shield Breaking Hits Reduction

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2012-11-05

TitusV wrote:Im with Cailen on this. I don't like the proposal and plan on voting against if it goes to senate.


Ditto
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Re: Shield Breaking Hits Reduction

Post by Sir Sturmbjorne » 2012-11-08

ditto
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shroom2021
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Re: Shield Breaking Hits Reduction

Post by shroom2021 » 2012-11-08

Well then, guess I will withdraw this suggestion.

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Re: Shield Breaking Hits Reduction

Post by Gwydion » 2012-11-09

Is there any way possible this could be play tested on the scale of Inox's armor proposal? I think the current atmosphere of simply disagreeing without seeing it in action is pretty deplorable. At this point both arguements are somewhat opinion based. Lets see if actually play testing it yields any changes.

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Re: Shield Breaking Hits Reduction

Post by President » 2012-11-09

Gwydion wrote:Is there any way possible this could be play tested on the scale of Inox's armor proposal? I think the current atmosphere of simply disagreeing without seeing it in action is pretty deplorable. At this point both arguements are somewhat opinion based. Lets see if actually play testing it yields any changes.


Ask the guy controlling this account in 2013 :mrgreen:

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