Shield Breaking and White Axes

Forum for the discussion of proposals people would like to make.
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shroom2021
Darkonian
Posts: 162
Joined: 2012-01-10
Location: Somewhere in southern Elidor

Shield Breaking and White Axes

Post by shroom2021 » 2012-11-08

!!! Like the reduction proposal, this will only apply if shield break becomes a fighter/cav ability!!!

I was thinking this could be done in the following fashion:

1 handed Axes(White) Will cause a shield or buckler to break in five solid hits.

A shield previously struck by a single handed axe will still require three solid hits from a two handed shield breaking weapon.

A Buckler previously struck by a single handed axe will still require two solid hits from a two handed shield breaking weapon.

I think five is a good number, prevents axe spamming but allows someone on the wall to slowly chew through an opponents shield. The trailers on this prevent confusion as to how damage mixes by have the old shield break weapons ignore the damage of the new shield break weapon. This could be explained by saying that a white axe does damage the integrity of the shield, however it does so in a much smaller area than a two handed axe for instance. The small holes it punches in the shield will not aid a larger weapon in ripping the shield apart across a larger area.

RavensWraith is still a valuable relic as it still breaks shields in 3 and bucklers in 2.



A couple of suggestions for Dual Wielding Axes:
1. When wielding two axes, only the axe in your dominant hand (left or right, pick one) is capable of delivering a strong enough blow to cause damage to a shield.
2. Require players to completely say Shield Break 1, Shield Break 2, Shield Break 3, Shield Break 4, Shield Break 5 if not already a requirement. I sometimes hear this: "Shield Break 1! 2! 3! Shield Destroyed!"

shroom2021
Darkonian
Posts: 162
Joined: 2012-01-10
Location: Somewhere in southern Elidor

Re: Shield Breaking and White Axes

Post by shroom2021 » 2012-11-08

Calien: P.s. if you allow one handed axes to break shields even in 5+ swings ... I would hate to see the result shields would start being usless how many fights have you been in that you managed to block or hit the other players shield with a one hand weapon ... it would become like a drum feast more then we currently see when one player gets behind another ... wack wack wack wack wack shield gone ... no finess no advanced blocking OR striking to get around the shield it would just be a roll up and swing away at the fences as fast as you can as strong as you can to make the blows legal ... I would not want to see us go that route it would take away from the huge advances we have seen in skill on the field and detract from what constutes a good fight


I think that having shield breaking white axes on the field would not detract from skilled defense on the field. If you are aware that a player can break your shield with an axe, you would modify your defense to reduce that advantage by either angling your shield to reduce the impact so that it does not strike firmly, or by using your weapon to block the axe. Much like facing a shield breaking weapon now, I have seen many players opting for these two options over absorbing the full brunt of the impact.

Noting that damage from a white axe does not carry over to other types of shield breaking weapons and specifying that only one axe can provide the damaging blow (when using dual axes) will further reduce the tendancy of this to become a slap fest.
Also the addition that this will only apply to fighter/cavs limits the proficiency of using dual axes as they would not be as effective on the wall as having a shield.

Sir Aethilgar
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 258
Joined: 2012-09-26

Re: Shield Breaking and White Axes

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2012-11-08

I do not support this proposal.

Having been in other games were one-handed shield breaking was common; shields were rarely used. I would not wish to see this happen to Darkon.

Further, adding this ability to the most common class in Darkon would detract from the value of certain relics. They are relic-level abilities for a reason.
Baron Aethilgar Sheldwich

Facta non Verba

"Arguing on the forums is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After some time, you realize that you are getting dirty, but the pig is actually enjoying it."

shroom2021
Darkonian
Posts: 162
Joined: 2012-01-10
Location: Somewhere in southern Elidor

Re: Shield Breaking and White Axes

Post by shroom2021 » 2012-11-09

"Ravenswrath deals magic white damage, however, in the hands of a Fighter, the axe destroys shields with three direct blows (two for bucklers) and allows its wielder to stand tall against giant-sized players and creatures. Any class capable of using white axes may use Ravenswrath."

RavensWraith is still a valuable relic as it still breaks shields in 3 and bucklers in 2.

My proposal would allow shield breaking for single handed white axes in 5 for both shield and buckler.

Seems like RavensWraith is still powerful in the hands of a fighter.

Having been in other games were one-handed shield breaking was common; shields were rarely used.


This is not a broad request for one handed weapons, only one handed axes. Which other game is there in which shield breaking is common with one-handed weapons? I will go and play a few games with them to experience this first hand if I am able. And if it is as bad as you think it is I will cease posting about it in this forum.

How many people do you think would actually go out and procure a white ax if this were to pass? I see a group of people using flails on the line now, but a majority still prefer sword and board to the perceived benefits of the flail.
I certainly do not see a majority of Darkon running around with two handed shield breakers and buckler sleeves(*read invulnerable pauldrons). This proposal would balance the use of bucklers as armor and add some more flavor to the types of weapons we commonly see.

President
Posts: 253
Joined: 2012-02-11

Re: Shield Breaking and White Axes

Post by President » 2012-11-09

There is no feasible way to track damage from white axe, vs great axe/reavenswrath to see when the shield is destroyed.

As for shields on the shoulder....there are 3 right now...all of them Knights. I know if two other Knights doing to do the same thing.

Gwydion
Posts: 14
Joined: 2012-10-13

Re: Shield Breaking and White Axes

Post by Gwydion » 2012-11-09

That's not true there is a way to track damage from white axes vs great axe/weapons... It has already been discussed else where. I think the problem with this proposal is that it makes it more difficult to track because a ratio of 5 white to 3 black returns us to a decimal half hit system that our currently proposed new armor system is attempting ot fix.

The ratio already discussed was a 4 white to 2 black. So 4 white axe hits will destroy a shield whereas 2 black weapon hits will destroy a shield. The ratio becomes 2 to 1 rather than 5 to 3. No decimals simple easy stays in line with the currently proposed armor system.

It will not be game breaking. As this proposal is a proposal for shield breaking only if the proposal for shield breaking for fighters and cavaliars only passes. Which in effect limits the number of shield breaking able players in the game. The number the will actually choose to use this ability will again limit the number of shield breaking weapons in the game. This is because axes are unweildy and not as versatile as swords especially red tipped swords and black shield destorying weapons force you to give up using a shield.

Darkon really needs to stop hiding behind their indestructable shields. Shields are and never were indestrutible. Extra shields were usually brought to battles in order to replace ones that were destroyed and during lulls in combat were replaced. This is historical fact. I understand that this game cannot be completely realistic but there is no reason that we can't create a more realistic set of shield breaking rules. I also understand that we are a fantasy game and because of that must suspend disbelief for certain aspects of the game. However shield breaking is a concept not based on fantasy but reality so lets actually take shield breaking make rules for it that will actually be used based on a realistic model and are simple.

As it stands now shield breaking is garbage. Its too weak thus making it to hard to shield destroy and will more often then not simply result in any attempt to do so in death for that person.

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Sir Tyriel Firebrand
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 369
Joined: 2012-01-26

Re: Shield Breaking and White Axes

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2012-11-10

The real issue with shield break in darkon is that the weapon specs are ridiculous. Also the rule states that you must hit the flat of the front of the shield. That pretty much guarantees blown and sheared tips on weapons and In my opinion is unsafe. I will never be down with one handed shield break weapons. I think that it doesn't really add anything to the game.
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