My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

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Isawa Ryuu
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My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

Post by Isawa Ryuu » 2012-12-03

Mind you, this proposal failed a horrible death in senate, but I still had it on my computer. I read someone was unable to find it. Well, here it is if for whoever was seeking it.

Fighter and Cavalier Proposal
(Additions in red, removals in Blue)

Changes to the Types of Characters in Chapter Five.

Fighters
Fighters are the generic ‘warriors’ of the Realm. Fighters are by far the most popular class in Darkon, and the bulk of many Country armies are comprised of them. They are permitted to wield any weapon, use any size shield, don any armor, and wear any style of costume.

At 1st rank, a Fighter gains the skill of ‘Shield Break’. This skill allows a Fighter to break shields with a select list of weapons. In the hands of a Fighter, a Battle Axe, Halberd, Black Glaive, or Yellow weapon with a 5’ overall length (except for quarterstaves and Bars) are capable of destroying shields. Clubs and Maces require a striking surface 6” in diameter. For information on how to perform a ‘Shield Break’, refer to the Shields section of the Darkon rulebook in Chapter Three.

At 8th rank, a Fighter gains the ‘First Aid’ skill. First Aid allows a Fighter to bind light wounds on himself or others. To use this skill, the Fighter must tie a white cloth bandage, 4-5" wide, with a red cross on it around the wounded limb. The limb is still considered to have a light wound but can now be used. If the limb is wounded again, regardless of armor, the player is considered mortally wounded. If the additional wound to the limb was dealt by a yellow weapon, then the limb is unusable, but the player is not considered to be mortally wounded. After five minutes of a wounded limb being treated by the First Aid skill, the limb is considered fully healed and the bandage can be removed. The First Aid skill has no effect on mortal wounds.

Also at 8th rank, a Fighter gains the adventure-only skill of ‘Shield Repair,’ which allows him to repair his own shield. To perform this skill, a Fighter must take off his damaged or destroyed shield. After role-playing (pretending to bend metal, fix straps, and grumbling) over the shield for two minutes, the shield is fully restored. This can be done to any one shield once. If the shield is destroyed or damaged a second time, the Fighter must have the shield magically mended, or must have it repaired in Hades. This skill does not work on siege weapons, battering rams, the Shield spell, Relics, or anything other than normal shields. This skill can only be used on one shield at a time.

At 10th rank, a Fighter gains the advneture-only skill of ‘Armor Repair.’ This skill is similar to Shield Repair, except that it is used to repair a Fighter’s own armor. Each piece of armor is considered separate, and must be removed from the Fighter’s body. Only one piece of armor may be repaired at a time. At 12th rank, a Fighter may repair the armor and shields of other players with his Repair skills.

At 15th rank a Fighter gains the skill of ‘Siege Weapon, Battering Ram, and Structure Repair.’ This skill is similar to Shield Repair and Armor Repair except that is used to repair damaged siege weapons and structures (such as gates). To perform the skill, a Fighter must role-play (pretending to bend metal, hammering, and grumbling) over the item being repaired for four minutes. If another two Fighters work on the same item at once, the time spent, repairing is reduced to two minutes. To use this skill each Fighter must have a hammer (as described in the ‘Weapons’ section of the Darkon rulebook) to act as a tool repairing siege weapons, battering rams, and structures.


Cavaliers
At 1st rank, a Cavalier gains the ‘Shield Break’ skill. A Cavalier's Shield Break works the same as a Fighter's mentioned above.

Monks
Monk characters strive for rigorous physical and mental discipline. Due to their intense reliance on order, they must be of lawful alignment whether good, neutral, or evil, and they must always remain true to their alignment. Monks may use any weapons except shieldbreaking weapons, bows, and crossbows. Monks may not wear any armor or use any type of shield.


Rangers
Rangers are fighter characters who are adept to natural or woodland surroundings. They may use any non shieldbreaking weapons, and may wear armor from the AR5, AR4, AR3, and AR2 armor ratings. Rangers may use any shape shield, so long as the largest dimension of the shield does not exceed 36”. A Ranger’s costume should primarily consist of neutral/ woodland colors.

Changes to the Weapons and Shields sections of chapter three of the Darkon Rulebook

Battle-Axe (Black, Shield-destroying Weapon)
Halberd (Black, Shield-destroying Weapon)
Halberds must have an overall length between 6’ and 10’. The blade of a halberd must be at least 18" long, at least 2” thick, and extend at least 1’ from the shaft. The shaft of a halberd must be well padded. Halberds must be swung with two hands. See the section on Shields below for more information.

Shields

Shields in Darkon are the most effective protection against physical attacks and will block an attack from all nonsiege weapons. A player may only wear one shield at a time (except for bucklers, detailed below), and shields must be worn on the arm in order to provide protection. There may be no shield spikes or other ‘hard’ decorations on the front or edge of a shield. Shields may not be thrown.

Shields must be constructed with a solid plywood core at least 1/2 " thick, and the wood must be well padded on the front, outer edges, and corners, with no less that 1 ½ inches and no more that 6 inches of foam from the outer edge of the core. The wood may contain holes for handles and fitting, but holes to simply to remove weight are forbidden. Any protrusions should be sufficiently padded. All shields must have a cloth cover in the colors of the players Country, or brown if the player is a nomad. Shields are held by straps or handles, which are bolted to the wood on the back of the shield. All exposed bolts or sharp edged handles must be filed down or padded. The area immediately around and in between the straps does not require padding, but must still be safe.

Certain weapons can destroy a shield in the hands of a player with the ‘Shield Break’ skill. To deliver a shield breaking strike toward a shield, the player must deliver a solid hit while swinging the weapon with two hands and calling out “Shield Break.” If a shield receives three solid hits from a shield destroying weapon (glancing blows do not count, and the hit must strike the front facing of the shield) it is considered destroyed and much be dropped. If a particular Relic or spell will penetrate a shield, it will be stated in the description of the Relic or spell. Remembering hits taken to a shield is the responsibility of the receiving player struck by a shield-breaking weapon (similar to remembering hits to armor worn).

A shield may be made in any style, shape, or size according to the character type restrictions of the player. The size of a shield is measured by the shield’s largest dimension.

If a shield is larger than 36" it is considered to be a tower shield.

Shields that fasten to the arm, leaving the hand free, are called bucklers. Bucklers must be between 12" and 18" in size and may be made from 1/4" thick wood. A player may wear one buckler shield on each arm, but may not use both a buckler and a normal shield.

Bucklers, as specified in this rulebook, are considered shields but are strapped to the arm and made with lighter materials. As such, shieldbreaking weapons will destroy them with two hits (this includes mages shields; if they follow the specifications, outlined in the rulebook, for bucklers).

Because it is difficult to remove a buckler during combat, any hits to an already destroyed buckler (still strapped to a players arm) will count as a normal hit.

Again, because it is difficult to remove a buckler during combat, any hits to a buckler which is strapped to an injured arm (i.e. light wound) shall count as though said arm was struck directly.

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Artex
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Re: My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

Post by Artex » 2012-12-03

I agree with this. Why did this fail so hard seems like a good proposal.

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Inox
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Re: My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

Post by Inox » 2012-12-03

Yeah, this really should have passed.

Cosign.
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Sir Sturmbjorne
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Re: My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

Post by Sir Sturmbjorne » 2012-12-03

Cosigned.
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LordTyrantCort
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Re: My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2012-12-03

Cosign with a bullet.
Live for the slaughter
GLORIUS death

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Gor Strayhorn
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Re: My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

Post by Gor Strayhorn » 2012-12-04

Warrior Mage should be included for removal of "Shieldbreaking" wording.
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Sir Tyriel Firebrand
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Re: My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2012-12-04

I would like to change the wording in the shield breaking part. I think that only the front counting for the shield is ridiculous. All thats asking for is weapons to break and people to have arguments over, oh no it hit the edge of my shield.
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Lord Valfryn
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Re: My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-12-04

Good point, but I would make that a seperate prop, after the launch. Splitting votes in senate is bad, mmmkay?
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Sir Tyriel Firebrand
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Re: My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2012-12-04

I will cosign for this, but then I want some help with the shield breaking thing. Im not good with words a lot of the time.
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Artex
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Re: My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

Post by Artex » 2012-12-05

I would actually play my fighter more if this passes. I prefer lighter armor and got better abilities as a ranger. This... This would be fun as hell.

Cog
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Re: My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

Post by Cog » 2012-12-13

I will cosign this

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Sir Sturmbjorne
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Re: My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

Post by Sir Sturmbjorne » 2012-12-19

Sir Isawa,
Are you planning on actually proposing this and doing all the foot work to get this in the rules, or are you posting this here so that someone will pick it up and run with it? Just curious as I think this is truly how things should be run with Shieldbreaking.
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Kobalos
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Re: My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

Post by Kobalos » 2012-12-19

Whoever ends up proposing it, I suggest breaking it up into smaller, separate proposals. It failed last time because not everyone liked everything about it (iirc).
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Isawa Ryuu
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Re: My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

Post by Isawa Ryuu » 2012-12-20

If everyone wants it, I can try again. However, while it sounds like the wise thing to do, I rather keep the proposal as a whole piece. The point of the proposal was to make fighters more fun without over powering them all while fixing Shield breaking.

The proposal failed for really dumb reasons such as those who wanted to have the shield breaking skill taken away from the cavalier, which was against the intent of the proposal. I was not trying to alter or strip other classes of abilities they already had, I was trying to fix many problems with shield breaking.

My concern was that things like making repairs a battle skill would be accepted while shield breaking would be dropped. The whole proposal was to give some fun changes along with some important ones. This is because there is a resistance to improve or add any favorable changes to the fighter class I will get into more depth later in this post.

The ability to heal was a controversial proposal, but it really did not change much of anything. In a battle, five minutes is much too long to change how the ability is used, while the change would have added more purpose for first aid on an adventure to during down time (besides we can use Hades to heal now). Plus, I saw this was an opportunity for fighter countries to have more common sense versatility. However get this, the main reason the skill was disliked was because, there was concern that the ability to heal after five minutes with first aid would somehow invalidate the role of clerics. Clerics are such a powerful class that can heal on the fly and play a necessary role in Darkon far beyond simply healing, but there were players who used that as an argument.

What really happened? This is what I saw. Senate was comprised of those that play classes other then fighter. This is the case because players who play fighters are only concerned with being on the field leaving decisions in the hands of those that do not share their concerns. We have seen many classes get huge upgrades and skills while the fighter is still the same after all these years. Even when I saw huge support for the proposal, when senate came around there were lots reaching for faults with this proposal while the majority of the population that loved the proposal was busy playing instead of being part of the process to ensure their interest were met.

I can propose this again, BUT those that really want it NEED to be there to support it. There was really no mystery why a proposal everyone felt should have passed didn’t. Change only comes when people stand up and voice their needs in senate. Otherwise, you can’t assume or depend on others to have your best interest at heart. That means those who co-signed this proposal need to be at senate this time instead of playing (some of who have co-signed this again). Furthermore, they need to get their friends to come to voice their opinions. It’s not enough to expect rest of the realm to share the same enthusiasm.

Furthermore, Fighter-mage needs to updated for the changes. Does this affect the co-signing by anyone?

Isawa Ryuu
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Re: My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

Post by Isawa Ryuu » 2012-12-20

Warrior Mage
Warrior Mages are characters that have divided their time between martial pursuits and the study of the arcane. They are not permitted to use a shield of any kind, but they may use any non‐shieldbreaking weapon. They may wear armor of no greater than AC 3. All spells are as the Mage versions, unless specifically stated otherwise.

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Sir Sturmbjorne
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Re: My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

Post by Sir Sturmbjorne » 2012-12-20

Do you want to give the Shield-breaking ability to Warrior Mages? I'm not opposed either way.
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Isawa Ryuu
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Re: My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

Post by Isawa Ryuu » 2012-12-20

Warrior-mage can use all weapons like the ranger and monk, but not use the shield breaking ability. Limiting their weapons selection would be useless since the weapons they could use would have no shield breaking advantage. That was the purpose of the fix.

Notice how Clerics can still use big yellow clubs, but only a fighter would be able to shield break with it. Reason giant clubs never became shield breaking was due to concern that clerics would have access to the ability. The proposal closes all those problems and even clarifies in the rules how shield breaking should be conducted in a battle to eliminate confusion. Example: we assume that calling the number of the shield break is the responsibility of the attacker when it should be on the defender just like attention to armor shots.

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Re: My old Fighter and Cav. Proposal

Post by Magistrate » 2013-01-24

even though people are cosigning this it is still in the discussion phase so please work out what exact wording and who is proposing based on that wording - recosign - then it will be addressed in senate

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