Get rid of res potions

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Snudge
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Get rid of res potions

Post by Snudge » 2013-01-04

Exactly what the title says

Resurrection is a level 10 spell, no other class besides clerics can cast it. Allowing it to be made into a potion effectively allows any class of any level to cast a level 10 cleric spell. No other class in the game can turn a level 10 spell into a potion. The cost of a res potions is 1 gold and 10 spell points. This is completely unbalanced, res potions need to be removed from the game. Those that are in play turn into cure mortal potions.
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Zentor
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by Zentor » 2013-01-04

The potion itself isnt overbalanced. It is when people running adventures flood the game with all potions for almost no REAL cost. And besides, the most unbalanced potion, that causes the most grief, is Gaseous Form by a huge margin.

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Amazing_Iltztafein
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2013-01-04

I agree with Steve. The biggest problem is when adventures involve people selling 435824395843958435943 potions for almost nothing, or if not potions, instant cast spells. Hosting countries and people should avoid the best of spells (res, spell of shielding, gaseous form, growth) and stick to lower level potions and instant cast spells.

P.S. I think growth is probably the biggest griefing potion.

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fingers630
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by fingers630 » 2013-01-04

Yep blame the people that flood the market on the cheap. I had several res potions for sale when trying to raise coin for the club. They were priced high and 0 sold. CHeap potions, no matter what they were, sold like hotcakes.
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Ogre Solaris
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by Ogre Solaris » 2013-01-04

As a maker and seller of res potions, I try not to let them go cheap. What do you consider cheap? Dr. Squirrel and I have been selling them for about a year now, and we try to get a decent return on investment so we can pay the creator a wage (anyone interested in a job, come see one of us at Redland).

At camp, if I make one, I blow about 1/3 of my spell point for the day right at the start for 1 potion, that is a big hit when the spell also costs me 2 each time I cast it. Right now I have 34, 1 potion drops me to 24 which is 12 resurrections if I cast nothing else at all. If I prayer touch anything, which I often do, that's another point, create holy water to bless weapons costs me one, curing light and mortal wounds is another, etc. The power afforded you by having a res potion is offset by the caster sacrificing spell points to create it. In one battle during the ORCS campout we had a while ago I cast resurrection at least 6 times in one fight, so making a potion severely limits my effectiveness as a healer right from the get-go.

The "problem" may have come from the fact that we had a lot of adventure days on the schedule last year and thus a lot of day events that allowed us to create potions. In day events, I rarely cast anything so sacrificing 10 points is no big deal. If it were limited to actual adventures (campouts mostly) it would be a bigger deal to dump 10 points early and I might have to think about whether or not I can afford to do it.

If we do away with them, can we get all the gold back that was paid to make them, or at least a sum for the difference between res and cure mortal? I doubt that. As someone who doesn't accept country gold to do potions, earning and holding on to coin to make potions isn't always easy, I will fight for every silver I can get.
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Snudge
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by Snudge » 2013-01-04

so limit the creation of res potions to campout only seems fair. Objections?
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Amazing_Iltztafein
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2013-01-04

I'd say campouts and their pre-adventures.

That's still only 8 times a year at this point.

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fingers630
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by fingers630 » 2013-01-04

Of course, if we fix country accounts so they can only be used for land transactions, then people are responsible for their own coin, you wont have 100 res potions running around either.

*edit*
when i was talking about selling cheap, i was speaking in terms of npc campout hosts. pcs should make and sell potions for whatever they want.
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by Snudge » 2013-01-04

or we could make potions poisons and scrolls cost ten times the current amount.
Right now the prices are set in silver, why not set them in gold
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fingers630
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by fingers630 » 2013-01-04

just another step to making silver worthless.
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Amazing_Iltztafein
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2013-01-04

fingers630 wrote:Of course, if we fix country accounts so they can only be used for land transactions, then people are responsible for their own coin, you wont have 100 res potions running around either.

That is a terrible idea. It rewards the gold hoarders of today and punishes anybody that had turned theirs in to their country's coffers, which some countries have as a policy.

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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by Snudge » 2013-01-04

it'd save on minting coins for the club
But imo silver is already worthless for anything except making the poor fight in the dirt for coin. And then its just funny and sad
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by Garwa Mayharr » 2013-01-04

If it's seen that there is a problem in how many rez potions are in the game at one time, just charge a percentage of the players overall spell points,

Snudge
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by Snudge » 2013-01-04

can't do that, spell points reset each event, docking them a permanent percentage is to extreme
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DrSquirrel
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by DrSquirrel » 2013-01-05

Snudge wrote:or we could make potions poisons and scrolls cost ten times the current amount.
Right now the prices are set in silver, why not set them in gold


I do believe you are right sir and if we do this I will be ever so happy to help.
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Kobalos
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by Kobalos » 2013-01-08

Snudge wrote:or we could make potions poisons and scrolls cost ten times the current amount.
Right now the prices are set in silver, why not set them in gold


Ditto for poisons, and any other "personal" (i.e., non-map) assets.
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Inox
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by Inox » 2013-01-08

Or, potions, poisons, scrolls & anything else like that would be usable on the day it was created, only. Same with any potions or other consumable items you get on the adventure.

That would stop the hoarding, to be sure. Too many countries have too much gold for a mere 10x to make a difference.
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Ogre Solaris
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by Ogre Solaris » 2013-01-09

I don't know about the use on the same day only thing. I know I sure wouldn't bother making any. It costs me 10 spell points to make a rez potion or 2 to cast it (3 to prayer touch and insta-cast it). I'm not going to lose the 10 points just to make a potion if it's only good for the day.
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fingers630
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by fingers630 » 2013-01-09

Yeah I would say 1 year max for potions or scrolls, date stamped when signed by magistrate/marshal. Maybe 6 months if a year would be too much.
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Amazing_Iltztafein
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2013-01-09

If some crazy old wizard wants to hoard *, let them.

*says the crazy old wizard*

Actually, I could see expiration on potions, but scrolls? Meh. Potions are at least a liquid of some sort - who knows what you put into them to make them (I WON'T SHARE MY SECRETS, DAMMIT!), but after a year it could grow mold in it. Yuck.

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Lord Valfryn
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-01-09

The more that * needs to be kept track of, the less I think it needs to be around. It can be used daily, or it can't. If we need to regulate potion use in a friggin game, we are doing it wrong.
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fingers630
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by fingers630 » 2013-01-09

Amazing_Iltztafein wrote:If some crazy old wizard wants to hoard *, let them.

*says the crazy old wizard*

Actually, I could see expiration on potions, but scrolls? Meh. Potions are at least a liquid of some sort - who knows what you put into them to make them (I WON'T SHARE MY SECRETS, DAMMIT!), but after a year it could grow mold in it. Yuck.



yes but the ink on scrolls could fade! :)
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DrSquirrel
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by DrSquirrel » 2013-01-10

If you make potions and scrolls a use it the day its made or lose it you would be destroying a reason to use gold in the first place.
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Inox
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Re: Get rid of res potions

Post by Inox » 2013-01-10

Ogre Solaris wrote:I don't know about the use on the same day only thing. I know I sure wouldn't bother making any. It costs me 10 spell points to make a rez potion or 2 to cast it (3 to prayer touch and insta-cast it). I'm not going to lose the 10 points just to make a potion if it's only good for the day.


It is generally less useful for a person to make a potion or scroll for themselves.

The real utility is that someone else can do something they couldn't normally do. Remember, even a 1st rank Cleric can read Resurrection scrolls, and a Thief of 9th of higher rank can read all scrolls. ANYONE can use a potion.

...and most notably, a potion can be used to bring the Res-ing Cleric back to life.

Also, potions & scrolls can't be looted the day they're made if kept by the player who made them, & they aren't ever affected by Dispel or player death...
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