Re: Changing Maelstrom

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Amazing_Iltztafein
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Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2013-01-14

I have always felt that Maelstrom just doesn't fit into the relics category the way anything else does. I feel that it is overpowered compared to anything else. It has three balls, all of which can completely take a player out of the game for a few minutes. Compare this to the Javelin of Lightning, which only destroys a shield (or does black damage - which these days is useless compared to red damage from an actual javelin) and that is just silly. Then there is the arrow of piercing - it kills one person completely, but only one. That's one person out of the fight. The Dagger of Venom is the same way.

It seems as though Maelstrom received three balls because everything in the relics category, for the most part, came in threes if they didn't come in one. The Wand of Gartan can throw three spellballs, sure, but they do black damage... You can't necessarily take three people out of the game with it very easily.

I would propose a change to Maelstrom getting one spell ball.

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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by fingers630 » 2013-01-14

Meh. Its not all that. It just seems that way on normal battle days in the woods where we have a 40ft space to fight in and everyone is packed together. Normal field battles where people are spread out it isnt that much of an issue. You still have to hit the person, and the fact that without the spell balls its just a great sword that gives yo pro ice doesnt scream "relic" to me.

In a related note, I overheard someone say "You can free someone from ice storm by chipping them out". I dont see this anywhere in the rules. Yes, Maelstrom can strike through the spell, but inflicts damage as normal. Only Burning Hands can free someone without harming them.
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TitusV
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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by TitusV » 2013-01-14

I also heard that 4 hairy dudes hugging the frozen player can thaw them out too.

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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by Kobalos » 2013-01-14

TitusV wrote:I also heard that 4 hairy dudes hugging the frozen player can thaw them out too.


What a coincidence, some hairy dude in purple tried hugging me out yesterday ;)
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Amazing_Iltztafein
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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2013-01-14

fingers630 wrote:Yes, Maelstrom can strike through the spell, but inflicts damage as normal. Only Burning Hands can free someone without harming them.

Dispel magic can free them without harming them, and fireball can as well.

Notice that if you are freed by being HIT by a fireball you take a mortal wound, so if you are in the radius, you would take no damage (this is what elders have told me for years, anyway - and the wording is correct, whether their reading is or not).

Perhaps it could keep its three spell balls, but it only gets one functional charge? This way, it is like the JoL or AoP... But since spell balls are pretty stupid, you have two more chances to hit someone.

To be honest, I've always thought it was a little OP, even in the open field. I've thought for awhile it should be changed to one to bring it more in line with other relics that can take a player out. Yesterday just made it dumb - when you have 20 or so people on each side in a small area, it becomes silly.

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Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by fingers630 » 2013-01-14

Notice that if you are freed by being HIT by a fireball you take a mortal wound, so if you are in the radius, you would take no damage (this is what elders have told me for years, anyway - and the wording is correct, whether their reading is or not).


Huh? What elders so I can smack them?

Ice Storm
Creatures can be freed by using Dispel Magic, Burning Hands (four charges) or Fireball, but Fireball will cause a mortal wound to the creature.


Fireball
Any creature within the 3’ radius is mortally wounded.


Pretty clear cut.
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Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2013-01-15

fingers630 wrote:
Notice that if you are freed by being HIT by a fireball you take a mortal wound, so if you are in the radius, you would take no damage (this is what elders have told me for years, anyway - and the wording is correct, whether their reading is or not).


Huh? What elders so I can smack them?

Ice Storm
Creatures can be freed by using Dispel Magic, Burning Hands (four charges) or Fireball, but Fireball will cause a mortal wound to the creature.


Fireball
Any creature within the 3’ radius is mortally wounded.


Pretty clear cut.

That is what I said, but they have all argued that since it says that FB causes a mortal wound and doesn't mention if that is direct or from radius, it means it's from a direct hit, and thus radius just melts them without hurting them.

The firs time I heard it was during a war action. Oddly enough, if they hadn't ruled it that way, things might've gone much differently since it was several folks that I had frozen - the same ones that killed me, the last person in the tower five minutes later.

And I've heard it since then on several occasions - mostly during other wars, but never since I was a spell marshal or when the president was around, so I never had a chance to really question anybody about it.

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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by Inox » 2013-01-15

It's supposed to be as Fingers says. If you get freed from the Ice Storm by taking a hit from a Fireball, direct or indirect, you're Mortalled.
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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-01-15

I wouldn't mind Maelstrom being 3 balls, 1st freeze ends it's fun. So it's likely to hit one person at least.


I do agree that it's a bit strong for what it is.
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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by fingers630 » 2013-01-15

id settle on 2 balls. sometimes you miss :)
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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2013-01-15

I've played the whole chipping them out of the ice thing for a couple years. I saw it happen once and it was awesome. Then I saw someone get hit in the shield 3 times and chased the guys with maelstrom down. It was cool as * and was very rp.
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Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by Gor Strayhorn » 2013-01-15

Why not allow players to be chipped out just like the Entangle mechanic. Each arm and leg must be freed.
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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-01-16

because someone encased in magical ice is slightly more involved than being wrapped up in tangles?

how about this?
The owner of Maelstrom can free encased victims at a touch.

This means that if you kill the guy with maelstrom, you can go free your frozen buddies, but it's not easy.
It will also keep people from throwing the spell balls and then ditching the sword afterwards.
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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-01-16

How about leaving Maelstrom alone, but making it a giant 6.5 foot unwieldy beast of a sword like it used to be. Very few people used to want to use it, cause it SUCKED to use. Now its a rinky dink ultra light... it's supposed to be a FROST GIANTS SWORD...

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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by fingers630 » 2013-01-16

It is a frost giants sword....a short sword :)
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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by jayjay » 2013-01-17

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:How about leaving Maelstrom alone, but making it a giant 6.5 foot unwieldy beast of a sword like it used to be. Very few people used to want to use it, cause it SUCKED to use. Now its a rinky dink ultra light... it's supposed to be a FROST GIANTS SWORD...

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even if it's big and unwieldy, what's to stop someone from throwing the three balls and the dropping the sword to use a better balanced weapon? just drop the aoe from the balls and it should be fine.
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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by Sir Sturmbjorne » 2013-01-18

jayjay wrote: just drop the aoe from the balls and it should be fine.


There is no AOE for maelstrom or any Ice Storm spell ball.
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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by Zodiac89 » 2013-01-18

jayjay wrote:
Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:How about leaving Maelstrom alone, but making it a giant 6.5 foot unwieldy beast of a sword like it used to be. Very few people used to want to use it, cause it SUCKED to use. Now its a rinky dink ultra light... it's supposed to be a FROST GIANTS SWORD...

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even if it's big and unwieldy, what's to stop someone from throwing the three balls and the dropping the sword to use a better balanced weapon? just drop the aoe from the balls and it should be fine.


Maybe if we edited the rules on Maelstrom that if it is used to freeze someone, but is not used to fight with beyond that (with an exception of course for time spent finding someone to fight, to which end we could give them 30-60 seconds of "downtime"), then anyone frozen by Maelstrom will thaw prematurely. Chalk it up to the magics of the sword losing the brunt of their power if the sword is not being wielded in combat. This would prevent someone from freezing one or more person, and then just ditching it.
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Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-01-18

I just don't like the "fire and forget". That's why I would add the "unfreeze" ability to it. So that if I freeze three of your homies and then just as quick ditch the sword because it sucks to fight with: one of your guys can grab it and thaw your guys. This will keep people using it.
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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by fingers630 » 2013-01-18

actually the sword is pretty nice for a blacksword. at least ive found it so, much better than the old maelstrom.

whenever I use it, the people frozen are killed about 10 seconds later when I hit them.
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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by jayjay » 2013-01-18

Zodiac89 wrote:
jayjay wrote:even if it's big and unwieldy, what's to stop someone from throwing the three balls and the dropping the sword to use a better balanced weapon?


Maybe if we edited the rules on Maelstrom that if it is used to freeze someone, but is not used to fight with beyond that (with an exception of course for time spent finding someone to fight, to which end we could give them 30-60 seconds of "downtime"), then anyone frozen by Maelstrom will thaw prematurely. Chalk it up to the magics of the sword losing the brunt of their power if the sword is not being wielded in combat. This would prevent someone from freezing one or more person, and then just ditching it.



it's a nice idea, but not really a practical one. if the guy with the sword drops it on the other side of the 200 person toilet bowl, you're not likely to see it to unfreeze.
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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by Zodiac89 » 2013-01-18

True, but an Elder might.
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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by fingers630 » 2013-01-19

LOL were lucky to get 2 elders for any given 2 teams.
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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by Sir Sturmbjorne » 2013-01-19

Truth.
I think that IF you really wanted to change Maelstrom so it didnt seriously affected up to three people, do what you were talking about for a bit... 2 or 3 spellballs available, only one person can be affected; IE, first person to be hit by Maelstrom makes the rest of the balls useless.

The sword itself, I am not a fan of because it doesnt seem weighted properly; albeit I have little to no black sword experience, I wasnt able to be affective with it. Light or not... it just feels strange.
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Re: Re: Changing Maelstrom

Post by Inox » 2013-01-21

It used to be unwieldy, but do a Black and a White. Now, that was confusing as hell, but if the Sword of Slaying can be a short sword & do two points instead of one, why can't a ginormous sword (let's make it bigger!) do 4 instead of 2?

Make it a max length 2H sword that does double damage, & remove the spell balls. Suddenly, everyone wants to hold onto it after they get it.
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