Discussion - Remove offensive spells

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Lord Dubh
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Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Lord Dubh » 2013-02-19

I think the game needs to have a serious discussion about removing combat spells from the game.

These types of skills require no real combat skill, disrupt the flow of real fighters in combat and make us look silly. Other games make fun of Darkon because of the pillow fights and personally, I hate gearing up only to die because a red pillow lands next to my feet.

Trolling? Maybe. In truth I am sick of hearing how powerful mages are and how badly magic needs to be changed, etc. etc. Darkon is no longer the D&D centric game it was, with heavier focus on fighting and no role-playing maybe it is time to switch gears and change our focus. Make it a sports club maybe instead of a fantasy game??
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by fingers630 » 2013-02-19

*sniff* I smell a troll.
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-02-19

I'm just touching myself and re reading John's post over and over...

In all seriousness, I say ad words to offensive spells. The problem is not THAT a mage can fireball me out of a fight, it's that in a rez battle he can do it EVERY SINGLE * TIME I COME BACK. Even if I sprint to the rez point and back, there he is, another fire ball in hand... THAT, is ruining everyone else's fun.

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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-02-19

I really don't mind the magic element. Because .. well I'll be bold and say it: not everyone is a physical specimen. It's good to have a role for all players. I don't like any class in the game being able to compete offensively with with fighter class. I like classes to trade offensive power to accommodate a player who

A: is unwilling or incapable of going * in armor.
B: is willing to sacrifice their raw damage output to increase the effectiveness of their unit.

This is the same reason that I cry (actual tears, mind you) for the nerf of the cleric. I feel their damage output is too close to the fighter, since their defense is equal.

There are lots of ways you can bring mages/ clerics into the game and active in the battles without giving them insanely offensive spells/ abilities. These players do not want that. They want their cake, and to be able to eat it too. They don't want to hump around gear, towershields and three weapons, but expect the same K/D ratio.

I love the idea of class abilities and roles for players at Darkon.

I would:
1: Eliminate AOE from anything that isn't a siege weapon. (I would also replace spellballs with something more substantial, so they can be felt.. like "minijavs" or something.
2: Allow only one protective spell to be active at a time from any mage (he can wear a skin, or fireprot his homies, make x amount of weapons magic)
3: Bring all skins (all classes) down a notch
4: eliminate the flail from the cleric, or at least drop one of its defensive abilities down a rank (AR3or 36" shield)

I would add stuff like:
1: Player centered protection or buffs, based on a focus. Spitballing here...A mage can protect all around him from magical harm by holding his "wizard staff" over his team. Making him the protective force of his unit. He also is now a secondary force in alerting players when they've been hit by magic and when not to take it. (win/win)

I haven't really thought this out, but I'm looking for something that actually gets casters/support characters INTO THE GAME. I want our fighters to want/need support of our casters, and our casters to have to be ACTIVE to help the adventure along.

I'm all for a static and lower spell reading number, and even the elimination of spell points. So long as the projectiles become heartier and the AOE goes away. Then casters are seen as a mix of support/ranged DPS that operates a little more on par with our combat system.
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-02-19

I haven't really thought this out, but I'm looking for something that actually gets casters/support characters INTO THE GAME. I want our fighters to want/need support of our casters, and our casters to have to be ACTIVE to help the adventure along.


Oh snap, like it was a few years ago?!?!? You mean mages weren't intended to be one man weapons of mass destruction, taking out entire front lines on ANY bridge or trail battle ever?!? Naaaaaw

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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-02-19

As to the "increasing spell length".. Won't help.

I have literally sprinted after lay on right into a mage who hit me with non-pouched fireball. It's amazing how many spells managed to get "finished" when you're 3 yards away.... when you started only 20 away. This happens often enough that it's fact. The 10 second fireball is a common threat.

I would eliminate this as best I could... because since I can't count on people to read words in a trustworthy fashion, I would make them use this ability in a manner that forces them to actually hit me. Giving me a chance to "dodge their cheating ways" literally. If we convert to mini-javs or something of the like, we will also limit their carrying capacity.. or even say that each mage can only cast X amount per battle.

I'm sure with all the rules lawyers here, they can come up with a plan to make it work.

In reality I'm trying to get the game more fun and dynamic. And even more fun and dynamic for the people thinking that I'm really just out to ruin their ROFLKILLS.
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by fingers630 » 2013-02-19

LOL yeah usually thats just "cheating". Man up, lose your spell, and go toe to toe with that fighter bearing down on you. Some people are just afraid to lose, especially to people they view as "less skilled" than themselves. Who cares if you die? You just get back up in 5 minutes anyway right?

Honestly magic could do with a complete overhaul, but there isnt a "fair" way to do it without doing a complete overhaul on the entire game.
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-02-19

With it.

I will see what I can come up with. I've been in the mood to write a "nerdifesto" anyhow.
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-02-19

I'll take this as a serious discussion...

Darkon is Darkon... a full contact medieval/fantasy combat game based on some traditions found in D&D. The combat is hard-hitting, the RP is light, and the magic (while powerful) does seem to be rare (few active 'fireball' mages around).

If this is not the game you wish to play, there are plenty of others out there. Dag comes to mind if you want combat with some fantasy flavor. Or the SCA if you want combat and no fantasy. Or... well, you get the idea. The list could go on and on. Some games are combat heavy, some magic heavy, and some RP heavy. Darkon seems to be the best blend of the three.

I would be unwise to change Darkon to suit members from other combat groups out there... just as it would be unwise to change these other combat groups to make them more like Darkon. Allow each to hold their niche and keep our options open. That is not to say that some ideas/rules shouldn't be reviewed for compatibility or safety; they should, but to change the nature of Darkon into something else? I think that this would only cause a new game to pop up that remained true to Darkon's past.

And this wouldn't be the first time happened; Emarthangarth, Algestrion, Darkon, ToHA, Archaea, Midgard, Amtgard, Dagohir, Belegarth, NERO, etc, etc, etc. Sometimes these groups last and sometimes they do not. But I truly believe that a fundamental shift in Darkon rules would cause those who wish to retain 'magic' in their game to simply form a new one. It would be a sad day, indeed.
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Inox » 2013-02-19

Lord Valfryn wrote:There are lots of ways you can bring mages/ clerics into the game and active in the battles without giving them insanely offensive spells/ abilities. These players do not want that. They want their cake, and to be able to eat it too. They don't want to hump around gear, towershields and three weapons, but expect the same K/D ratio.


That's my problem as well. I think there's a place for magic in the game, but it has to be balanced, and I think we've gradually had power creep with Mages (& Clerics), especially.

1.) We introduced Spell Reductions
2.) We gave Mages Pouch
3.) We gave Mages Stoneskin, and then Steelskin
4.) We introduced Protection from Fire (allowing Mages to not fear the 'suicide charge' or missile attack)
5.) We introduced a lot of other buffs, like Growth, Gaseous, etc.

The only thing we took away was Time Stop, and let's be honest: that was an unplayable, unfair, & frustrating mess. ...and they got Steelskin at the same time we removed that.

However, since we now have more people in the game than when the Fireball rules were originally written, and since spells take 1/2 the time to cast as they did initially, a LOT MORE Fireballs are in the air. Also, since you can no longer reliable kill a Mage with a single well-placed arrow (or expect them to die from their own detonation), it gets even more out of hand.

If I didn't care about game balance, I could just play my 20+ rank Mage anytime I wanted to nuke the * out of something & just never say a damned thing against the power level of magic in the game. I can Prot. Fire and ignore the Fireball that would otherwise have taken me out. My best combo is short sword, dagger, and buckler anyhow...I lose nothing in playing Mage.

However, crazy me, I care about balance more than I care about accumulating personal power.

Lord Valfryn wrote:I love the idea of class abilities and roles for players at Darkon.

I would:
1: Eliminate AOE from anything that isn't a siege weapon. (I would also replace spellballs with something more substantial, so they can be felt.. like "minijavs" or something.
2: Allow only one protective spell to be active at a time from any mage (he can wear a skin, or fireprot his homies, make x amount of weapons magic)
3: Bring all skins (all classes) down a notch
4: eliminate the flail from the cleric, or at least drop one of its defensive abilities down a rank (AR3or 36" shield)


Here are my thoughts on those:

1.) Hells to the yes. AoE is a difficult mechanic in the midst of combat, and doubly so when nothing substantial lands near you.

The minijavs idea is brilliant. Maybe we could bring back throwing axes/hammers for spell effects?

2.) Yes again. Also, let's stop allowing a single Mage to Prot. Fire as many teammates as he has cloaks and spell points. Make it be a tactical decision what to protect, rather than just layers of everything allowable.

3.) Agreed also. I wouldn't cry if all *skin went away. It had its time, but honestly, it's becoming more of a hassle than a flavor element. I have come around to the thinking that in today's Darkon, protection should = wearing armor.

4.) I'd say: Remove tower shield, give them a max result of AC 3 regardless of whether or not the armor's AC 4, take away offensive spells. In a game where you count your own hits & wear armbands, this shouldn't be too hard to implement.

Lord Valfryn wrote:I would add stuff like:
1: Player centered protection or buffs, based on a focus. Spitballing here...A mage can protect all around him from magical harm by holding his "wizard staff" over his team. Making him the protective force of his unit. He also is now a secondary force in alerting players when they've been hit by magic and when not to take it. (win/win)


That would be pretty solid, actually.

Lord Valfryn wrote:I haven't really thought this out, but I'm looking for something that actually gets casters/support characters INTO THE GAME. I want our fighters to want/need support of our casters, and our casters to have to be ACTIVE to help the adventure along.

I'm all for a static and lower spell reading number, and even the elimination of spell points. So long as the projectiles become heartier and the AOE goes away. Then casters are seen as a mix of support/ranged DPS that operates a little more on par with our combat system.


Yes, I think the spell point system sucks. Anything that's not too powerful to use in Darkon should be able to be used all the time. Fighters swing their weapons all day; casters should be able to do the same with their magic, provided it's not overpowering.
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-02-19

I agree with headband armor, in particular. When glass cannons are no longer glass, there is a problem.
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Defalcone » 2013-02-19

I hope you guys don’t mind but I would like to give an outsiders take on this. I have to say while the Land Map is awesome; the magic system is what really sets Darkon apart. Take away that and then Darkon is Dag/Bel, and I no longer hold interest in these games. If Darkon were to become more like Dag/Bel, we would not follow. If I want to play that type of combat game, I will just go to the chapters we have here.

We treat the rules like less like an RP game or Larp and mote like a strategic meta wargame, so less like D&D more like Warhammer Fantasy Battles. Also we love the fact that there is someplace for everyone in the game, if you don’t have an awesome sword arm, then play a mage! The fact is we would not have the number we have if we were just a straight battle game like Dag/Bel.

I agree with removing AOE, not because I feel that it is too powerful, but for speeding up the combat. Having to hit your target with the spell ball means less “I didn't see where it landed.” And more of “Well I am dead.” (In a perfect world of course, you will always have those that want to shrug off any hit) Instead of being mobile artillery (like I use them now) they become more like an archer picking a high value target and taking them out.

The subject of protection spells is a good one; I like the idea of a mage (or anyone for that matter) having only one protection spell (either a ‘protection from’ or a ‘skin’ spell). Also maybe limit the number of people a mage can protect in a rez battle by their rank. The higher the rank the more people they have protected at the call of lay on.

For the things like steel skin, maybe instead of doing away with them treat them more like armor with 1 and 2 points, rather than 1 or 2 hits from any handheld weapon. This weakens the “skins” and brings it into line with the new armor mechanics. In turn it makes the game simpler and easier to learn.

As for clerics well I find it fascinating that some people want to take the flail away from them, yet the fighter who can also use plate and a tower shield, they never mention. I have never had any problem with the flail, and in fact due to shoulder injuries I have recently been forced to make it my primary weapon. The Flail is just like any other weapon, it has it strengths and weakness, and if I am facing a smart warrior he will minimize its strength and exploit is weakness, and if I am not the person will complain about how over powered the weapons is an not their lack of skill.

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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-02-19

Thanks for your input, and fresh eyes are always welcome. Also, thanks for properly seperating your paragraphs. It makes it easier to respond!

Defalcone wrote:I hope you guys don’t mind but I would like to give an outsiders take on this. I have to say while the Land Map is awesome; the magic system is what really sets Darkon apart. Take away that and then Darkon is Dag/Bel, and I no longer hold interest in these games. If Darkon were to become more like Dag/Bel, we would not follow. If I want to play that type of combat game, I will just go to the chapters we have here.


We are not looking to take away classes or magic. I agree, it's the flavor of our game that makes it unique. We have found that our club's size makes it difficult to adjucate rules that are designed for less that 50 players. I have seen more involved magic/combat systems work fine, but usually with a smaller club of well educated and supervised group.




Defalcone wrote:We treat the rules like less like an RP game or Larp and mote like a strategic meta wargame, so less like D&D more like Warhammer Fantasy Battles. Also we love the fact that there is someplace for everyone in the game, if you don’t have an awesome sword arm, then play a mage! The fact is we would not have the number we have if we were just a straight battle game like Dag/Bel.



This is exactly how I feel.

Defalcone wrote:I agree with removing AOE, not because I feel that it is too powerful, but for speeding up the combat. Having to hit your target with the spell ball means less “I didn't see where it landed.” And more of “Well I am dead.” (In a perfect world of course, you will always have those that want to shrug off any hit) Instead of being mobile artillery (like I use them now) they become more like an archer picking a high value target and taking them out.


True indeed, and with added projectile weight, hits will become more noticeable.

Defalcone wrote:The subject of protection spells is a good one; I like the idea of a mage (or anyone for that matter) having only one protection spell (either a ‘protection from’ or a ‘skin’ spell). Also maybe limit the number of people a mage can protect in a rez battle by their rank. The higher the rank the more people they have protected at the call of lay on.


Again, not a bad idea on the limiting, maybe 3-5 max. Noob protects 1 player, Gandalf protects 4.


Defalcone wrote:For the things like steel skin, maybe instead of doing away with them treat them more like armor with 1 and 2 points, rather than 1 or 2 hits from any handheld weapon. This weakens the “skins” and brings it into line with the new armor mechanics. In turn it makes the game simpler and easier to learn.


Exactly what I said. Drop the skins down one peg.

Defalcone wrote:As for clerics well I find it fascinating that some people want to take the flail away from them, yet the fighter who can also use plate and a tower shield, they never mention. I have never had any problem with the flail, and in fact due to shoulder injuries I have recently been forced to make it my primary weapon.


It's actually a good weapon. The headshot makes it a day-battle kill count boost for sure, and as you said... if an injured player can use one effectively, what can a healthy one do?

As to the "fighters get it" argument... well, fighters get it because all they have is weapons and armor. No spells, no abilities worth using. Just me, my gear and a willingness to sweat year-round.

Defalcone wrote:The Flail is just like any other weapon, it has it strengths and weakness, and if I am facing a smart warrior he will minimize its strength and exploit is weakness, and if I am not the person will complain about how over powered the weapons is an not their lack of skill.


To the "lack of skill" yada yada... we are making these posts based on expertise. I don't use a morningstar because I don't like to. I like feeling like I'm hitting someone with a stick, and stab them in the kneecaps. But somedays I truly want to kill for scorekeeping. I get the chain and mace, go to work. I use the weapon maybe 5 times a year (counting tourneys). Mop up. I give zero * about "Keeping up with the Drizzt's" or measuring foam dicks. I just know I could likely take on "Good Valfryn" (my alter) with a morningstar without having to train one lick.... and I'm a chump with the chain.

It's a very strong weapon, strong enough that when I use one, I feel like:
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Then I'm like:
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by fingers630 » 2013-02-19

Id have no problem making pro capes like enchanting weapons (ie level based). Just curious, if you are eliminating protection spells from stacking with headband armor, are you allowing people in armor to don capes? If so, that seems a little biased dont you think? 1 protection or the other.

as far as mini javelins, i dont really care for the idea. too cumbersome to carry. if you want to make spell balls heartier, go for it, but remember they are face legal. my spell balls are far from "light" but safe enough not to break a nose if I hurl it into your face.
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by mardux zulammar » 2013-02-19

fingers630 wrote:Id have no problem making pro capes like enchanting weapons (ie level based). Just curious, if you are eliminating protection spells from stacking with headband armor, are you allowing people in armor to don capes? If so, that seems a little biased dont you think? 1 protection or the other.

as far as mini javelins, i dont really care for the idea. too cumbersome to carry. if you want to make spell balls heartier, go for it, but remember they are face legal. my spell balls are far from "light" but safe enough not to break a nose if I hurl it into your face.


This. I'm fine with nerfing prot capes and making them so you can only have X of them on the field at a time, but like fingers said, it does seem a little biased if they won't stack with nerfed headband armor but will stack with the plate and tower shield.

And if you want "mini javs", how would these be made? I don't see people letting them be face legal if they have any kind of core. And if they don't have a core they would just be oblong pillows which would flop around in the air and not throw for crap. Adding more weight to them might solve some of that iissue but it will also cause concern with them being face legal.

I have some of the heaviest (if not the heaviest) spell balls out there today, weighing between 7.5 and 8.5 oz each. They won't break your face, but people still complan about them. Any heavier and I wouldn't feel comfortable throwing them at people for fear of breaking their nose.
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2013-02-19

Im gonna jump in here and I might ruffle some feathers but I think a few things need to be said. As far as taking magic out of the game, I am strongly against that. That is what makes Darkon, Darkon. I play every single game that there is to play in the Tri state area, and I even play Bel in IL. As far as making Darkon to suit players from other games, I do not think that is even the case, as most of the players that are vocal against magic are Darkonians. If I wanted to go play a different game, I would.

Magic in Darkon is better balanced than other games I have played. You actually have to read a spell book and you can't point and click to kill someone. However, when everybody and their mom has a backup mage to play in a war, or at a campout, you see the fireballs a flyin. The speed at which the spells are cast is ridiculous. I have seen the same instances that Valfryn and Thrush are talking about, and it gets out of hand.

Making spell balls into mini javs is not the answer but its not because of weight. They would be cumbersome and be yet another thing that a mage has to carry around. Dag has Javs that have a weight min of 16oz. I have not seen or been hit with a bad one.

Skin armor could be taken care of simply with giving them a real armor option. Mages could wear padded or have robes count, Druids have to wear at least leather and get it bumped to hide, Monks could get leather or something of that sort.
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Zur BAMC mage » 2013-02-19

I will agree that one issue with spells is how quickly they are cast, an alternative solution to adding more words however would be to make a ruling regarding what constitutes a word. I have stood next to some mages and read fireball at the same time, some can get three off in the time for me to cast one. My spell isn't reduced at all yet, but it takes me 40 seconds to read if i speed through it.

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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Defalcone » 2013-02-19

Lord Valfryn wrote:To the "lack of skill" yada yada... we are making these posts based on expertise. I don't use a morningstar because I don't like to. I like feeling like I'm hitting someone with a stick, and stab them in the kneecaps. But somedays I truly want to kill for scorekeeping. I get the chain and mace, go to work. I use the weapon maybe 5 times a year (counting tourneys). Mop up. I give zero * about "Keeping up with the Drizzt's" or measuring foam *. I just know I could likely take on "Good Valfryn" (my alter) with a morningstar without having to train one lick.... and I'm a chump with the chain.


This we will have to agree to disagree on, any weapon is powerful if the person who wields it knows how to use it and the person defending doesn't know who to defend against it. I could really go into this but I think this sums it up, if hes using a flail don't defend against the sword.

fingers630 wrote:Id have no problem making pro capes like enchanting weapons (ie level based). Just curious, if you are eliminating protection spells from stacking with headband armor, are you allowing people in armor to don capes? If so, that seems a little biased don't you think? 1 protection or the other.

To be honest the game is already biased, whenever you give one thing to one class and not another you make the game biased. Until the day I can carry around a catapult on my back, flinging green damage, wearing fullplate and throwing fireballs as I carry around a tower shield and swing a black weapon, the game will be biased in some way.

How about this option? You can have a 'skin' on and a 'protection' on, but instead of a protection from this or protect from that, make it a universal protection spell. So it will absorb any fire, ice, lighting etc. but its gone when one of those hit it. Mind you, there is no perfect solution to messing with a characteristic that defines a class, only a compromise. I am not coming in and saying I am right and your wrong, only giving an opinion.

In our small group the standard Darkon spell word number is too much, we tested it. Mages simply didn't have the time to get anything off, so we halved the number of words, even with that, low level mages seldom get off a spell before they are killed by a fighter. We introduced pouch as a battle day spell and this helped the mage become a more attractive class.

Everyone who plays a magic using class knows that this in only a temporary thing. Once the right numbers are met this goes out the window.

Smaller groups make for quicker battles, the bigger the group the longer the fight and the more time the mage has to get through the required number of words

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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-02-20

fingers630 wrote:Id have no problem making pro capes like enchanting weapons (ie level based). Just curious, if you are eliminating protection spells from stacking with headband armor, are you allowing people in armor to don capes? If so, that seems a little biased dont you think? 1 protection or the other.

as far as mini javelins, i dont really care for the idea. too cumbersome to carry. if you want to make spell balls heartier, go for it, but remember they are face legal. my spell balls are far from "light" but safe enough not to break a nose if I hurl it into your face.



the point of the minijavs is to limit how many you can carry, see?

...and the balance of wearing capes and armor.. well .. it's that I actually have to wear * armor. It's not like I can put on a 'do rag of hit-sloughing. I am carrying * 50 lb of gear.

If you want to go full nerd, how about this... it's an enchantment. ONE enchantment. If i were wearing magical armor (bracers of armor) then it wouldn't stack. But since my pants aren't magical, nor is the * of metal I am dragging around all day, there's nothing TO STACK because there's nothing magical about a guy willing to carry armor all day.


... a rant is eminent
WTF is up with people not respecting the fact that there are people who CARRY their * class abilities on them. They don't lawyer them, they don't pluck them from a book... they carry them. They sweat, fight and bleed.. often chasing down people that don't... only to have someone like you, Fingers say "well if my sweatband doesnt stack with fireprot.. your 45lb-60lb of gear shouldn't. Get the * over it.

I really don't see in what universe we should reward players for lacking the ability or drive to succeed physically. I do think we should create a place for people who choose not to play a physical game, hell , even those who can't (let's face it, I'm a disc thrown away from being a caster myself). But for the love of sweet AR4 Jesus... stop acting like a dude in sweatpants and a cloth halo should be on par (game balance wise) with someone busting their ass to play the game.

Defalcone wrote:
Lord Valfryn wrote:To the "lack of skill" yada yada... we are making these posts based on expertise. I don't use a morningstar because I don't like to. I like feeling like I'm hitting someone with a stick, and stab them in the kneecaps. But somedays I truly want to kill for scorekeeping. I get the chain and mace, go to work. I use the weapon maybe 5 times a year (counting tourneys). Mop up. I give zero * about "Keeping up with the Drizzt's" or measuring foam *. I just know I could likely take on "Good Valfryn" (my alter) with a morningstar without having to train one lick.... and I'm a chump with the chain.


This we will have to agree to disagree on, any weapon is powerful if the person who wields it knows how to use it and the person defending doesn't know who to defend against it. I could really go into this but I think this sums it up, if hes using a flail don't defend against the sword.


I don't think you comprehend. I think it matters not, because if I'm not mistaken- I cannot show you from years of experience with us.. nor can you vote in senate. On thing though: I will say that eventually there will be a day when you figure this stuff out. It's ok. It happens to everyone.
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Lord Dubh » 2013-02-20

Defalcone wrote:
Lord Valfryn wrote:To the "lack of skill" yada yada... we are making these posts based on expertise. I don't use a morningstar because I don't like to. I like feeling like I'm hitting someone with a stick, and stab them in the kneecaps. But somedays I truly want to kill for scorekeeping. I get the chain and mace, go to work. I use the weapon maybe 5 times a year (counting tourneys). Mop up. I give zero * about "Keeping up with the Drizzt's" or measuring foam *. I just know I could likely take on "Good Valfryn" (my alter) with a morningstar without having to train one lick.... and I'm a chump with the chain.


This we will have to agree to disagree on, any weapon is powerful if the person who wields it knows how to use it and the person defending doesn't know who to defend against it. I could really go into this but I think this sums it up, if hes using a flail don't defend against the sword.


I don't think you comprehend. I think it matters not, because if I'm not mistaken- I cannot show you from years of experience with us.. nor can you vote in senate. On thing though: I will say that eventually there will be a day when you figure this stuff out. It's ok. It happens to everyone.[/quote]

Then let me say it since I am in the club and more experienced "with us" than you.

People who know how to use a weapon are far more devastating than those that do not and against people who have no idea how to defend against it, are more so.

Really not sure what this has to do with our magic system though, I feel like I am in the white axe discussion..... Seems this thread is DOA and I am no help...
Sir Bendore Dubh of Dai-Dagan, CR, KR, OG, OR, CB, CC
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-02-20

Lord Valfryn wrote:WTF is up with people not respecting the fact that there are people who CARRY their * class abilities on them. They don't lawyer them, they don't pluck them from a book... they carry them. They sweat, fight and bleed.. often chasing down people that don't... only to have someone like you, Fingers say "well if my sweatband doesnt stack with fireprot.. your 45lb-60lb of gear shouldn't. Get the * over it.

I really don't see in what universe we should reward players for lacking the ability or drive to succeed physically. I do think we should create a place for people who choose not to play a physical game, hell , even those who can't (let's face it, I'm a disc thrown away from being a caster myself). But for the love of sweet AR4 Jesus... stop acting like a dude in sweatpants and a cloth halo should be on par (game balance wise) with someone busting their ass to play the game.


*sways back and forth*

CAN I GET AN AMEN?!!?!?!?


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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2013-02-20

Amen brother thrush..... preach on BROTHER Valfryn.

Against this prop idea.... but, for an overhaul of magic give me a PM with ideas and i will put it all in one place for people to look at....
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by fingers630 » 2013-02-20

Sorry all I read was "wahhh I wear armor, and carry a big shield, thus getting the most defense by far out of anyone in the game, feel bad for me cause its heavy."
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Zur BAMC mage » 2013-02-20

If I had money to buy armor I would say * the mage and buy plate, make a giant shield, and make a flail, and bitch about the guy who can't use that and still wants to affect gameplay. But I can't afford plate, so I'm stuck with what I have.

If you want spells to take longer to cast you should make a definition of what a word is in the rule book. Some mages have entire spells written with "technical" words that are basically meaningless combinations of two or three letters. These are significantly easier to read quickly and to me ruin the spirit of the game to some degree.

All I'm saying is that my spell uses all real words that anyone can find in a dictionary and it takes me twice as long to read half of my spell as it takes other mages to read the full spell (mine isn't reduced yet).

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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-02-20

That's cause that's what you want to hear. We wear armor to get to fight longer and harder... and then don't get to play Darkon at all because FIREBALLFIREBALLFIREBALLFIREBALL... I don't get dressed and pay 5$ to line up, have lay on called, jog across the field, and sit down. I pretty much have to suffer through about 2 hours of that, wait for the mages to go home, then get in some awesome fighting for an hour at the end of the day with about 40 people. So really, I pay 5$ to play a fighter AFTER Darkon. (I am referring to scenario days (bridges for example) where mages pretty much ruin everyone's good time, not 2 teams).

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Also, for clarification on my stance: I wear hide armor and use a 30" round shield and sword.
Last edited by Thrush Svartehjertet on 2013-02-20, edited 1 time in total.
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