Lord Dubh wrote:Darkon is unique in that we can accommodate differing interests and here you are working on proposal decrease those options. Why? To what end? Everything I see in this thread (excepting the Steel Skin and AOE) is designed to make Mages engage in active combat. This is wrong.
To be fair, the main focus of this discussion has been *skins & AoE.
I have no desire to make Mages jump into the front lines. Fighters fight with their swords, Mages should be able to fight with their magic. I only want to see it balanced properly.
Ideally, we'd get the power level such that Mages could function continually
as a support/artillery class, without having to worry about conserving spell points (a dubious mechanic).
Lord Dubh wrote:Right now the mage is one of the go-to classes for people who have no interest in being in the thick of the fight for any reason but still want to be involved. I do not think they should be able to stand toe-to-toe with a fighter in plate either, EVER. The Glass Cannon needs it glass back (I opposed Steel Skin) but the idea of forcing these player to engage in active combat more just because it is what YOU enjoy is asinine.
I do not have a vote, but I will speak loudly and frequently to those that can to make sure that Darkon does not become a place where only those you seem to consider "real fighters' belong.
I think we're on the same page to a degree. Note the emphasis I added above.
Since the early days of Darkon:
1.) Mages went from NO armor, to ignoring the first weapon that hit them, to ignoring the first TWO weapons that hit them.
2.) Battles are many times larger than in early Darkon, meaning much more time for casters to cast.
3.) We cut the length of Fireball in half
with spell reductions.
4.) We introduced Prot. f/ Fire, so Mages can have their Fireball detonate on them & be unhurt.
5.) We introduced Pouch for Adventure days.
6.) We gave them a whole bunch of other powerful things like Gaseous and Growth.
The combination of these factors makes Mages & their quick AoE really, really powerful. Today's bridge battle was a lot of fun; it wouldn't have been nearly as much fun if a Fireball was clearing the front line every 15 seconds or less. We've all seen those bridge battles...far more time walking to the res point than being in the battle. Mages still killed a bunch of people with Fireball (and Roy used Mending to great effect in keeping his front line alive), but it wasn't overpowering
Honestly, with Fireball at that power level (no AoE), you wouldn't even have to have spell points.
Also, I agree with you that Steelskin is too much. I'd like to see:
1.) No AoE (for any spell – it's a confusing mechanic, as Murph said above)
2.) No spell points (cast & cast & cast)
3.) No Stoneskin or Steelskin...just let Mage robes count as AC 1
4.) Maybe give them Missile Ward; as characters not on the front lines, this still would save their asses often