Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Forum for the discussion of proposals people would like to make.
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Inox
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Inox » 2013-03-01

Lord Dubh wrote:Kevin,

I believe you are in the minority. You have made the same argument time and again with no effect.


That's the nature of the boards. I have argued at great length on a wide range of issues; for some I have championed proposals, while others (e.g. what we know of death IC) have yielded nothing but prolix venting.

Lord Dubh wrote: I also know your a smart man, and seeing as you have not put forth a proposal you also know you are in the minority.

If I am wrong and you honestly believe that you represent a majority, then take it to Senate. Pass or fail it will end the debate, at least for now.


Sometimes I feel an issue needs to percolate a bit. Debates take time to build momentum. I will cosign the proposal of another, but I am not going to put one in just yet.

This is not because I feel I am in the minority; it's because I'd rather see proposals go through with close to unanimous assent.

Lord Dubh wrote: I am just sick of every discussion involving magic devolving to the same tired debate. So many other things we can be doing.


Nothing here is preventing anything else from occurring. What else did you have in mind with magic?
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fingers630
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by fingers630 » 2013-03-02

to kill with a fireball you are required to read from a book and throw a small pillow into a crowd of (most likely distracted) people. This requires 0 skill.


hehe this made me laugh. this requires 0 skill in the same manner that killing people from behind or using a bow requires 0 skill. sorry G, you are incorrect in this. while it may not be as cool as swinging a super light sword at someone and killing them, it does in fact take a little skill.

I agree with bendore and dont see the issue. remove AOE from certain scenarios and the problem will cease. no one is dying to mass fire ball in 2 team battles. Even Tyriel agrees with me that AOE isnt a problem in field battles. No AOE in bridge battles is a start.

Change spell lengths to timed casting instead of # of words and you solve the problem of cheating casters and super speedy spells. 30 seconds for Fireball sounds about right.
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Lord Dubh
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Lord Dubh » 2013-03-02

Lord Dubh wrote: I am just sick of every discussion involving magic devolving to the same tired debate. So many other things we can be doing.


Nothing here is preventing anything else from occurring. What else did you have in mind with magic?[/quote]

I don't have the boner against magic that you have, mainly cause I don't have any issues with it as is. You years in Archea may have made you more sensitive to it once you got back to playing Darkon??

Why don't people fix the ship size problem that was identified at Oregon Ridge??
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Gor Strayhorn » 2013-03-02

Fingers,
I think backhackers suck but thats how some people have fun. Shooting a bow accurately takes a lot of skill; I am terrible at it.

I think the best bet is just to playtest each possible solution. Remove AoE on Boat Battles, and remove word reduction on offensive spells at two teams events. If people don't like it then it doesn't go to senate.
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Lord Valfryn
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-03-02

QFT
Gor Strayhorn wrote:When you fight against someone while wearing armor, you not only fight that person but you also fight your armor. Sometimes it doesn't like to move, sometimes it binds you up and it always, always, slows you down.


Timed is good. Too, and it's a shame that it seems like a good option. Lots of people put a lot of creativity into their spells, creativity that enriches the game. After doing the math, I know I'm counting aloud after lay on gets called from here on out.

Whatever makes sense, I also like the "AOE goes off only if it its a person". This will eliminate the "panic evoke, ground throw"

The problem is objectives. You know there will be clusters of people on the objectives, you will farm * of kills, and people who are wearing metal in 100 degree heat are walking back and forth from respawn just to get aoe'd again. Rarely is the "fireball-farmer" the guy one of the last 20 people out on the field, and even less often one of the last 10.

If trends continue (and maybe even a rule rewrite) to eliminate AOE during respawn Scenarios, we're onto something. Really, during 2 teams, getting FB'd doesn't matter too much.

My other goal is to eliminate people making subjective judgement calls. There's significantly less success arguing something hitting/not hitting you personally.
Last edited by Lord Valfryn on 2013-03-05, edited 1 time in total.
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Inox
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Inox » 2013-03-03

Lord Dubh wrote:I don't have the boner against magic that you have, mainly cause I don't have any issues with it as is. You years in Archea may have made you more sensitive to it once you got back to playing Darkon??

Why don't people fix the ship size problem that was identified at Oregon Ridge??


Actually, I love magic in the game; I only am concerned with balance.

If you recall, you were one of the five when we put together Warrior Mage (also Malkin, Martin, Shafor). Also remember, just a couple years ago I added Magic Missile, Detect Magic, and Legend Lore. I have 20+ rank characters in Mage & Warrior Mage. I am actually working on some ideas currently for some of the seldom-to-never used utility spells. Magic is a great flavor element. The last thing I want to see is Darkon lose its magic.

I am still a firm believer that Mages should be able to cast all day, just as Fighters should be able to swing a sword, bear shield, & wear armor all day. Getting the balance right could make that possible, rather than creating situations where the game becomes more fun by limiting rules as written (removing AoE for bridge battles, disallowing certain spells for given adventures. etc.).

When you say "ship size problem", what are your thoughts on changing things?
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-03-03

The idea of having to " horde SP" does not seem fun at all.
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fingers630
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by fingers630 » 2013-03-03

I will be taking note of how many mages field Sunday, and how many fireballs are thrown, and how many AOE deaths are caused. I am of the mind the numbers will be astonishingly small, but I guess we will see :)
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Sir Tyriel Firebrand
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2013-03-04

Currently taking AOE from the bridge battles and such is working and the fighting was awesome with fun had by all. It just tweaking the scenarios a bit is all.
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Inox
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Inox » 2013-03-04

fingers630 wrote:I will be taking note of how many mages field Sunday, and how many fireballs are thrown, and how many AOE deaths are caused. I am of the mind the numbers will be astonishingly small, but I guess we will see :)


It's not so cray on the field, but it's appalling in bridge battles, on ship battles, and in some sieges.

I really, really liked the non-AoE Fireball on the bridge battle the other day. Those were at the right power level...every 20-30 seconds, a Mage gets a chance to autokill someone if they can hit them. That works far better than distance lobs just continually landing near the front line & killing whole swaths of people.

Some bridge battles I've spent much more time walking to the Res point than fighting; this time was different, and I think most people really enjoyed the battle.
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-03-04

Lord Dubh wrote:
Why don't people fix the ship size problem that was identified at Oregon Ridge??



Cause I don't write proposals. Gimme the dimensions of the current ships and I'll start a thread. I ahve talked AT LENGTh with multiple people about this and feel qualified to start a conversation, just not to make a proposal in rule book lingo.

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fingers630
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by fingers630 » 2013-03-04

I can honestly say that at the Kraken battle, the ships will be friggin Huge.

From the responses Ive seen, I think we might be able to get rid of a lot of the unfuness of fireballs with 2 simple fixes:

Set time limit on cast (x seconds, counted mississippi style)
Limited scenario use (Ship battles, Bridge Battles, other case by case basis)

Honestly I think this would pass (and Id support it) more than flat out AOE removal.
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-03-05

I'd trade a set time for casting for AoE. With the caveat that the event marshal can say no AoE on this bridge fight, etc...

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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by fingers630 » 2013-03-05

And he most definitely will, even if it affects his kill count, which we all know is spectacular ;)
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-03-05

HAH
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Captain Igmund » 2013-03-06

There are solutions for those problematic fireballs.........Dispel Magic is so underused.....funny no has mentioned it yet.
Lol....and that's why fighters require little on the intelligence and wisdom charts.

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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Sir Caetrel » 2013-03-06

The top three topics in this section right now are "Remove AOE", "Remove Offensive Spells", and *ahem*..."Reboot Darkon".

Is it time for winter to be over yet?
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-03-06

Sir Caetrel wrote:The top three topics in this section right now are "Remove AOE", "Remove Offensive Spells", and *ahem*..."Reboot Darkon".

Is it time for winter to be over yet?


What will change in the Spring? The Darkon reboot thing is * brainless, but the other two are coming from a place of frustration from those of us who fight hard 24/7, 365... Not sure warm weather will change that, if anything more "pussies who play mages" (actually joking here) will come out when it's warmer out, thus exacerbating the problem.

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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Sir Caetrel » 2013-03-06

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:
Sir Caetrel wrote:The top three topics in this section right now are "Remove AOE", "Remove Offensive Spells", and *ahem*..."Reboot Darkon".

Is it time for winter to be over yet?


What will change in the Spring? The Darkon reboot thing is * brainless, but the other two are coming from a place of frustration from those of us who fight hard 24/7, 365... Not sure warm weather will change that, if anything more "pussies who play mages" (actually joking here) will come out when it's warmer out, thus exacerbating the problem.

Thrush
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I would hope Spring means less quack/ more hack, and less posting on message boards. I'm an optimist :D
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-03-06

Spring brings out the soft-serve. Summer scares them away, only to return for Autumn. Ahh, the ebb and flow of the "weather dependent."
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-03-07

Sir Caetrel wrote:
Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:
Sir Caetrel wrote:The top three topics in this section right now are "Remove AOE", "Remove Offensive Spells", and *ahem*..."Reboot Darkon".

Is it time for winter to be over yet?


What will change in the Spring? The Darkon reboot thing is * brainless, but the other two are coming from a place of frustration from those of us who fight hard 24/7, 365... Not sure warm weather will change that, if anything more "pussies who play mages" (actually joking here) will come out when it's warmer out, thus exacerbating the problem.

Thrush
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I would hope Spring means less quack/ more hack, and less posting on message boards. I'm an optimist :D


Not on the 2 magic related topics, sadly. They are being driven by the all hack, no quack club. lol

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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-03-07

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:
Not on the 2 magic related topics, sadly. They are being driven by the all hack, no quack club. lol

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All hack, no quack? Is it too much to ask for both?
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by mardux zulammar » 2013-03-07

Lord Valfryn wrote:
Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:
Not on the 2 magic related topics, sadly. They are being driven by the all hack, no quack club. lol

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All hack, no quack? Is it too much to ask for both?


Apparently, yes.
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fingers630
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by fingers630 » 2013-03-07

Oh i dunno, some of the hackers definitely Quack a lot. Their post counts rival mine =P
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Re: Discussion - Remove offensive spells

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-03-07

Wizard Life

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