Darkon Reboot

Forum for the discussion of proposals people would like to make.
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Prince Andrick
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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Prince Andrick » 2013-03-01

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:
Prince Andrick wrote:
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Cause they're emo.

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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Sir Caetrel » 2013-03-01

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:
Warlordcort wrote:Thrush, I started work at 7:30 yesterday morning. And the three Darkon FB threads were at 13, 6 and 20 comments. At 6:00 when I started driving from Waldorf to home, one of them was at almost 550 comments. The others were high as well.


I suspect the people who spend THAT much time on there are un-employed ....

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Haha noo, it's people who have free time at work to dick around on FB all day. Federal holidays, FB is dead!
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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-03-01

I wouldn't want a map reset. Expansion, yes, reset, no.

The FB post yesterday was 'meandering' to say the least. The original topic was an exploration of whether or not persistent magic items and adventure prize abilities had become 'game breaking' in regards to adventures, camp outs, and world events. It's not a sour grapes discussion between haves and have nots... (though some might have been tossed in)... but more a discussion of how much work around must to into planning an adventure to take into account such things.
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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-03-01

Me personally, I 'd say none. I'm pretty freakin' active at every campout, other than campout specific stuff to each one, I have yet to have a problem with any lingering prizes or whatnots...

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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-03-01

I haven't been to enough to judge for myself. What I have been hearing is that some adventures are planned with exceptions made to work around such items... and that some have witnessed event results swung widely on the number of items and adventure-won abilities. I'm glad to put your experiences into the balance, though!
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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-03-01

Yeah, I mean, other hthan the giant slayers guild, can anyone name something else otehr than holy weapons? I mean, I think it was Talid won black damage for his white sword for a year or something, but honestly, no one cared. I had a white ax that did magic damage for a year. The Forgotten Ones had an invisible smuggler's ship... We won a tower too. Seriously, this is some dumb *. Who is tromping around with a triple black glaive or double red flail at every campout? Or anything else for that matter?

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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-03-01

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:Yeah, I mean, other hthan the giant slayers guild, can anyone name something else otehr than holy weapons? I mean, I think it was Talid won black damage for his white sword for a year or something, but honestly, no one cared. I had a white ax that did magic damage for a year. The Forgotten Ones had an invisible smuggler's ship... We won a tower too. Seriously, this is some dumb *. Who is tromping around with a triple black glaive or double red flail at every campout? Or anything else for that matter?

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Naw, I like the sound of those awards. They tend to be either land meta-game specific or temporary. I'll have to incorporate some into a future adventure.
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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Inox » 2013-03-01

I have had a perma-magic sword since 2002. It has been a factor maybe once in the past 11 years. Almost never relevant.
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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by fingers630 » 2013-03-02

Amazing_Iltztafein wrote:
Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:
Warlordcort wrote:Thrush, I started work at 7:30 yesterday morning. And the three Darkon FB threads were at 13, 6 and 20 comments. At 6:00 when I started driving from Waldorf to home, one of them was at almost 550 comments. The others were high as well.


I suspect the people who spend THAT much time on there are un-employed or are people who care about how many friends they have on facebook, meaning whiny power gamers looking for the easy button.

And Artex, yeah, there's little overlap because most of us who spend time HERE are active members of Darkon who are interested in making the game better, not just winning and whining. And this has been proven time and time again.

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A large percentage of the people posting in the particular thread were regular posters here, to be honest (Cormac, Inox, Kai, Aethilgar, Artex, Fingers, Valfryn, Bendore, myself).

It's a lot easier to make a thread with 500 comments on Facebook, too. You can do other stuff (like work - I know several people on it were "working") and just pop back over, type a random line of text and hit enter (at one point it just became jokes, which is why it grew). Posting here is much more difficult (there is a timer and you have to click submit - and there is a minimum post length). Coincidentally, that is why discussion is better here overall.



LOL my boss was out of the office. I managed to do everything I needed to do in 2 hours, then make my army list for 40k Tourney this weekend, reorganize 2 magic decks, and read 100 pages of Chaos Daemons rumors during my day =P

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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by fingers630 » 2013-03-02

As far as overpowered prizes, I personally blame the EB that approves them. Most have the sense to put limits on things to keep them from becoming dumb.

Ched's guild was designed to be for Land Searches, according to the person who made up the prize. It has since been restricted to such, and even policed further by Lanham. I am not sure what the deal with Nurgles Goblin Slayer guild is, if it is LS only or what, the same with Aquilonia's Undead Slayer guild. I would hope so, as I would certainly restrict either if it became a huge factor in an adventure/event i was running.

Assuming these prizes are permanent of course, and not year long prizes like many people have received.

Oh and I have a special prize. An unlootable pouch, which cannot contain any item of "campout winning", and is restricted to when I play Fingers. I usually put a few coins in it, I think I had a writ in it once. An with thieves getting their own pouch similar, id hardly call it game breaknig. Of course, I havent used it in years, as its somewhere in my garage and Im kinda lazy to look for it =P
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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Arion_Lightseeker » 2013-03-05

Hey, whatever happened to the proposal to expanding the land map or simply creating a new continent in the current realm?

Plus, approving Chapters may help to have inter-realm silliness....

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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by mardux zulammar » 2013-03-06

The expanding the land map prop passed Senate at the last Oregon ridge event. Snudge is working on it bow as far as I can gather.
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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Inox » 2013-03-06

fingers630 wrote:Oh and I have a special prize. An unlootable pouch, which cannot contain any item of "campout winning", and is restricted to when I play Fingers. I usually put a few coins in it, I think I had a writ in it once. An with thieves getting their own pouch similar, id hardly call it game breaknig. Of course, I havent used it in years, as its somewhere in my garage and Im kinda lazy to look for it =P


I'm going to punt another hornet's nest here, but I think that Looting (whether Thief or non-Thief) should be restricted to being used on NPCs.

That is: I don't think player characters should be able to loot other player characters.

Let's face it: Outside of you, with such a pouch, and a few high-rank Thieves (like me :D), most people have no means to protect their wealth. Now, what do you do in a situation like that?

Most people opt to hide it somewhere other than their person: put it in the trunk of their car, "bank it", bury it in camp, leave it deep in the woods, etc. It would be very hard to put the kibosh on this practice by telling people they couldn't hide it. Really, even if we required people to turn in wealth at the end of each event (which would be a logistical nightmare, and bad for atmosphere), it would still occur.

Really, the way to get people to carry wealth is to remove players looting players. Once people are carrying coin, it becomes a far, far easier thing to introduce things in-game on adventures for them to spend it on. We can kick start a player economy driven by hard coin and not just occasional country coffer writ drawing.

The Thief abilities would still be a real asset for gathering wealth from slain NPCs, and Pick Pockets could similarly be used against NPCs to great effect. I can think of a whole lot of plot elements where a deft Thief might snatch a key, map, or what-not from an unhelpful-but-perhaps-unobservant major NPC baddie.

In the end, we can take coin from each other back & forth, but it leads to a chilling effect where the vast majority of people only carry coin for a few moments after acquiring it...often between the coin marshal and a payee. As a Master Thief, I find nothing at all on probably 9 out of 10 people...if the odds are even that generous.

I think we'd all have a lot more fun with coin if we changed things.
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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-03-06

I've spent 2 years thinking on this as well... and sadly, I came up with the same idea. It would make thieves actually mean something, and let people play with their fake money in the game. Which right now, I'm sorry, NO ONE does. I * LOVE steeling money from people... I play a viking, it's actually something I feel I should do MORE of... But all it does is keep people from carrying it, thus making it pointless for a campout host to come up with neat things to do with it.

Thoughts?

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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Tsukebe » 2013-04-02

This comes up every two to three years..

http://darkonsunofficialmessageboard.yu ... VuZHejD_IU

Maybe we should just do it...
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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Calus » 2013-04-02

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:Yeah, I mean, other hthan the giant slayers guild, can anyone name something else otehr than holy weapons? I mean, I think it was Talid won black damage for his white sword for a year or something, but honestly, no one cared. I had a white ax that did magic damage for a year. The Forgotten Ones had an invisible smuggler's ship... We won a tower too. Seriously, this is some dumb *. Who is tromping around with a triple black glaive or double red flail at every campout? Or anything else for that matter?

Thrush
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Exsilium won a magical Ballista (hyperion's bow) last year at a Patuxent campout. :D But we put in a lot of work to win something that weekend and thats what we got. We take pride in our magnificent siege engines. Rarely have we used it though.

So no I don't agree with a reboot as some of this stuff is integral to country history and identity.
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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Calus » 2013-04-02

-Inox- wrote:
fingers630 wrote:Oh and I have a special prize. An unlootable pouch, which cannot contain any item of "campout winning", and is restricted to when I play Fingers. I usually put a few coins in it, I think I had a writ in it once. An with thieves getting their own pouch similar, id hardly call it game breaknig. Of course, I havent used it in years, as its somewhere in my garage and Im kinda lazy to look for it =P


I'm going to punt another hornet's nest here, but I think that Looting (whether Thief or non-Thief) should be restricted to being used on NPCs.

That is: I don't think player characters should be able to loot other player characters.

Let's face it: Outside of you, with such a pouch, and a few high-rank Thieves (like me :D), most people have no means to protect their wealth. Now, what do you do in a situation like that?

Most people opt to hide it somewhere other than their person: put it in the trunk of their car, "bank it", bury it in camp, leave it deep in the woods, etc. It would be very hard to put the kibosh on this practice by telling people they couldn't hide it. Really, even if we required people to turn in wealth at the end of each event (which would be a logistical nightmare, and bad for atmosphere), it would still occur.

Really, the way to get people to carry wealth is to remove players looting players. Once people are carrying coin, it becomes a far, far easier thing to introduce things in-game on adventures for them to spend it on. We can kick start a player economy driven by hard coin and not just occasional country coffer writ drawing.

The Thief abilities would still be a real asset for gathering wealth from slain NPCs, and Pick Pockets could similarly be used against NPCs to great effect. I can think of a whole lot of plot elements where a deft Thief might snatch a key, map, or what-not from an unhelpful-but-perhaps-unobservant major NPC baddie.

In the end, we can take coin from each other back & forth, but it leads to a chilling effect where the vast majority of people only carry coin for a few moments after acquiring it...often between the coin marshal and a payee. As a Master Thief, I find nothing at all on probably 9 out of 10 people...if the odds are even that generous.

I think we'd all have a lot more fun with coin if we changed things.


And I agree with this people are just scared to carry coin. Me and another guy looted like 20 people last campout and came up emtpy. Maybe make thieves the only class able to loot NPC's? (Im not sure if you were suggesting just thieves do this or everyone in general). It would add a lot of value to having a thief around. As it is, people only look for theives on the off chance that there is a mod with a possibly of traps/locks. Would make for a good proposal.
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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Inox » 2013-04-03

I was thinking that:

1. PCs cannot loot PCs, except for Relics and Adventure-specific items that are carried or worn, and for which the Elders specifically allow it. This would apply to Thieves & non-Thieves alike.

2. Looting & Pick Pockets would only work on NPCs

3. Players other than Thieves could get coin from any situation where the coin was physically displayed (e.g opening a chest of gold & gems), or where it was given to them, obviously.

4. Non-Thief Looting of NPCs would be restricted as with PCs: Relics & visible Adventure-specific items meant to be taken.

This is good compensation for the Looting & Picking Pockets skills not working on PCs; it gives Thieves the distinct edge in initial wealth gathering (as it should be!), but it doesn't have a chilling effect on people carrying wealth.

Honestly, unless people can be unafraid to carry their cash without immediately losing it, we're going to have the same hoarding problems year after year.
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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Lord Dubh » 2013-04-03

I'm ok with people hoarding.

The Club should budget annual expense and order a set amount of coins in Silver and Gold each year with the option to skip a year.
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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Inox » 2013-04-03

The problem with hoarding is not primarily that the coins disappear and that we need to buy more.

It's that hoarding keeps us from having an economy after check-in.

As soon as someone gets gold, they stuff it in their trunk, hide it in camp, bury it in the woods...whatever. It happens more or less constantly. People only bring money to check-in (or get it from the Coin Marshal) to buy things at the beginning of the day.

People who play any kind of fantasy game ever, tabletop RPG or MMO, will notice that their characters always have gold with them so that they can buy things in the course of the game, whether from NPCs or other players.

It is also difficult (most tabletops) or impossible (most MMOs) to take gold from PCs. People have to have some security in their wealth, or you aren't going to see a lot of commerce.

Think about how likely most people would be to carry wallets, if they figured there were better than even odds of them getting mugged every time they went to the Starbucks, movies, or mall.

In the name of greed, we prevent players from actually getting a lot of the RP use of the coin that they otherwise would.
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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Artex » 2013-04-03

Move this to a new thread Inox, I'll co-sign.

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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Lord Dubh » 2013-04-03

I understand your point. But I have played a thief for 58 ranks...and much of that was spent trying to get gold from players. It was great fun, highly successful and there was always coin around. And this was when we used Cuervo Gold coins or Mardi gras coins.

Maybe the culture has changed. I never had problems looting people and getting money. I do not loot now and never get looted...so can't say what the real issue is other than either people are lazy (not looting), lieing (saying they loot and dont find stuff/dont loot at all) or people are petty and keep ALL the coin away from the game (we know the last occurs since we have to buy coins).

I just do not like the idea of not getting coins from PCs. IMHO it would have no real value then....
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Re: Darkon Reboot

Post by Inox » 2013-04-03

Lord Dubh wrote:I understand your point. But I have played a thief for 58 ranks...and much of that was spent trying to get gold from players. It was great fun, highly successful and there was always coin around. And this was when we used Cuervo Gold coins or Mardi gras coins.


Thief was my first character back in January '86. While I've spread out my ranks over a few other classes, and some of my credits were lost back in the day (grumble grumble), I still play my Thief a good bit, and am currently pushing 30th rank. :D

i used to have a lot of fun looting "coin" before there were even looting rules, and when most of the coin was
spray-painted punch outs from outlet boxes and pennies I made "gold" via science experiment. I know Arioch remembers those damned things.


Lord Dubh wrote:Maybe the culture has changed. I never had problems looting people and getting money. I do not loot now and never get looted...so can't say what the real issue is other than either people are lazy (not looting), lieing (saying they loot and dont find stuff/dont loot at all) or people are petty and keep ALL the coin away from the game (we know the last occurs since we have to buy coins).


Sadly, it really has changed. For whatever reason, you can loot and loot and loot and come away with very little for your efforts. I was not the only Thief reporting a distinct lack of gold on the field at the campout, despite incredibly large sums being thrown around in hard coin at check-in.

I think a lot of people hide coin away from their person as soon after getting it as they can. Then, they only bring it back when they need to buy something with hard coin at check-in. :D

Lord Dubh wrote:I just do not like the idea of not getting coins from PCs. IMHO it would have no real value then....


Coins wouldn't, or looting wouldn't?
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