Remove AoE

Forum for the discussion of proposals people would like to make.
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Prince Andrick
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Remove AoE

Post by Prince Andrick » 2013-03-01

Ok, so let's see what happens. It has been suggested that the AoE/no AoE argument is pointless because the majority of the realm wants it. So, if I can get 2 cosigners I will make the proposal and see what happens.

Proposal : Remove AoE from all spells in the game. Optional is to remove all AoE from the game, including siege.

Assuming I get 2 cosigners I'll do the leg work to actually find all the things it will effect.
Prince Andrick VanDahl KR, OSW, OR, OD, CM, CC
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Inox
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by Inox » 2013-03-01

Cosign
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Sir Aethilgar
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-03-01

Heh, I'll cosign. I don't think it will pass muster... but, with this much discussion, it should have it's day in Senate. Plus... it will make Andrick have to write it up! Bwahahahah!
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fingers630
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by fingers630 » 2013-03-02

So seige weapons are single target only? Sounds rather anti seigy to me.
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LordTyrantCort
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2013-03-02

Very anti-siege engine...
Three people to get one death.... Against that part whole heartedly.
Live for the slaughter
GLORIUS death

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Prince Andrick
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by Prince Andrick » 2013-03-02

That's why that part would be optional
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Lord Valfryn
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-03-02

Cosign, AOE stays on siege. Those are high profile enough that it's not a woop, and you've got 3 players spotting where it lands, usually yellying BOOOOOOM.
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Magnus
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by Magnus » 2013-03-02

Would we be visiting each spell that has AOE seperately, or just doing a blanket statement. I mean if you take AOE out of Dispel magic, it becomes pointless. Also, an AOE disabled warp wood becomes a lightning bolt that doesnt do damage. I am all for taking AOE away, and will cosign a proposal and vote on one that takes it away while keeping the classes that deal with AOE intact. However just removing AOE from the spells are going to leave some spells as being useless. i think fire ball is fine without AOE as it is BTW, killing 1 dude nomatter what he is wearing with a ball seems fine for 1 spell point.

Volney
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by Volney » 2013-03-03

List of spells that have an AOE Aspect to them;

Commune with Nature - Special range,
Detect Magic - 3' Radius on Caster,
Detect Traps - 10' Radius on Caster,
Dispel Magic - 10' Radius on Caster,
Entangle - 3' Radius Spell ball,
Fireball - 3' Radius Spell ball,
Legend Lore - Special range,
Light - 10' Radius on Caster,
Lightning Bolt - 3' Radius Spell ball, only in water,
Turn Undead - 3' Radius Spell ball,
Warp Wood - 3' Radius Spell ball,

Giant Growth - All players in 30' radius on knees,
Sanctuary - 1' radius of protection, Only Dispel Magic an AOE can remove.
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jayjay
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by jayjay » 2013-03-03

co-sign
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Lord Valfryn
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-03-03

If there is a spell ball, it loses AOE. Simple.
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Inox
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by Inox » 2013-03-03

Lord Valfryn wrote:If there is a spell ball, it loses AOE. Simple.


Exactly. This ain't rocket surgery.
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mardux zulammar
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by mardux zulammar » 2013-03-03

Yeah guys. If you don't have precision aim and can hit a moving target 30' away directly with a polyfil pillow, use a tower shield. Not hard.
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Lord Valfryn
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-03-03

mardux zulammar wrote:Yeah guys. If you don't have precision aim and can hit a moving target 30' away directly with a polyfil pillow, use a tower shield. Not hard.


Or practice, that might help. Failing that, plate up, tower up and fight. Seems good to me.

I have some experience with a spell ball.
I know that I have about a 80% accuracy with it.
Usually because I'm close.
I have never thrown an AOE spell ball.
I assume it's like throwing a non-AOE ball, but easier.
If spellball combat was difficult, it would likely be used/honored at practices.
By making spellballs non-AOE you would bring the need to practice the skill to the game.
The game prospers.

Or discontent mages could switch to fighter. I'm sure fighters would end up with Giant Growth within a year or two, and maybe Thrush's leather skin for fighters would come to pass (likely at lv 10, not 50).
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fingers630
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by fingers630 » 2013-03-04

Close only counts in horse shoes, and aoe spells.

Id like to propose to remove the proposal of removing AOE from this board. Can I get cosigners?

=P
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Thrush Svartehjertet
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-03-04

I don't like it. This conversation has been about flow of the game and balance.

Commune with Nature - Special range, Why change this; it's not in combat.
Detect Magic - 3' Radius on Caster, Why change this; it's not in combat.
Detect Traps - 10' Radius on Caster, Why change this; it's not in combat.
Dispel Magic - 10' Radius on Caster, Why change this; it doesn't kill anyone.
Entangle - 3' Radius Spell ball, Agreed, but you should not be able to be cut free for 20 seconds.
Fireball - 3' Radius Spell ball, Change it.
Legend Lore - Special range, What is this; I have never heard of it.
Light - 10' Radius on Caster, This makes no sense.
Lightning Bolt - 3' Radius Spell ball, only in water, Why change this; there is no reason to change this.
Turn Undead - 3' Radius Spell ball, I still feel this should just be 10' radius from caster.
Warp Wood - 3' Radius Spell ball, Change it.



My thoughts.


Thrush
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Inox
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by Inox » 2013-03-04

I was under the impression that we are discussing spellball AoE only.
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Prince Andrick
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by Prince Andrick » 2013-03-04

In the name of simplicity, I am submitting the proposal to remove AoE from all spellball spells. All others will remain unchanged by my proposal.
Prince Andrick VanDahl KR, OSW, OR, OD, CM, CC
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Elidorian Minister of War
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President 2013

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fingers630
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by fingers630 » 2013-03-04

Personally I think Entangle is one of the worst spells in the game. It SHOULD be single target only, functions as word of holding, cannot be blocked by a shield. No cutting free *. No "is this wooded enough for AOE?" *.

You hit someone. They are stuck there for 30 seconds while you A. kill someone else or B. form up to * them up 31 seconds later.
Justicar Lucius Alexander Crum
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Queen of the Silly People

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mardux zulammar
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by mardux zulammar » 2013-03-04

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:I don't like it. This conversation has been about flow of the game and balance.

Commune with Nature - Special range, Why change this; it's not in combat.
Detect Magic - 3' Radius on Caster, Why change this; it's not in combat.
Detect Traps - 10' Radius on Caster, Why change this; it's not in combat.
Dispel Magic - 10' Radius on Caster, Why change this; it doesn't kill anyone.
Entangle - 3' Radius Spell ball, Agreed, but you should not be able to be cut free for 20 seconds.
Fireball - 3' Radius Spell ball, Change it.
Legend Lore - Special range, What is this; I have never heard of it.
Light - 10' Radius on Caster, This makes no sense.
Lightning Bolt - 3' Radius Spell ball, only in water, Why change this; there is no reason to change this.
Turn Undead - 3' Radius Spell ball, I still feel this should just be 10' radius from caster.
Warp Wood - 3' Radius Spell ball, Change it.



My thoughts.


Thrush
berserk


Legend lore is one of the newer spells. Its almost purely rp. It might give you a little info on the background of the "relic of campout winning" or help you figure out what's up with that rogue scroll you can't seem to read when you cast comp languages.

The "radius" on light id assume of there because there are some really strong flashlights out there (especially if you swap the bulbs for LED) and you can end up shining them halfway from nk's camp to the tavern.
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Magnus
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by Magnus » 2013-03-05

I have no problems with removing AOE from all ball spells. My only gripe is that with out AOE, Warp wood becomes lightning bolt that doesnt destroy armor and doesnt do black damage. it will destroy 1 shield. I mean I guess it could destroy a spear or glaive too, but hitting a 1inch think pole without aoe that is moving constantly? I dont think Im gonna aim at that. If this spell was changed, or removed and a new one placed in its place ( such as decompose, same casting time, destroys armor and shield of an individual.

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fingers630
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by fingers630 » 2013-03-05

Nature's Rot

Destroys all armor on target struck, as well as shield. Single target only. Same grey spell ball.
Justicar Lucius Alexander Crum
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Queen of the Silly People

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mardux zulammar
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by mardux zulammar » 2013-03-05

Meteor: 250 words. Instant death. 50' radius. Casting mage is immune
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Sir Caetrel
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by Sir Caetrel » 2013-03-06

I am not in favor of removing AOE blanket from all spells, but then I don't think you'll have much traction with this in Senate. This is a rather fundamental change to the game. The recent complaints about fireball mainly seem to relate to:

1. Use in rezz battles and on bridge battles. Elders can simply remove AOE for a scenario if things get stupid. The solution here is better eldering at such times. Not removing aoe from the game.

2. Mages cheesing their incantation, casting the rush-fireball, or simply too quick of a rate of fire. Again, better eldering, and perhaps a consideration of lengthening casting times of fireball et. al.

I don't really understand the desire to keep it for siege weapons if fireball is such a problem. Do I really have to bring ALL the bunjeepults in my shed out to war? Have we forgotten how silly a line of these is? Not to mention their beardiness in boat battles. Even without AOE, they break gates.

For that matter, if fireball loses AOE, how do you determine if it blows up a gate or not?

This is just too much of a big, sweeping change for me.
Baron Caetrel Von Garren, KR, OSW, OR, OG, CC, CS
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Inox
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Re: Remove AoE

Post by Inox » 2013-03-06

I will respond to each point. :D

1.) This really needs to be the way it's done all the time for closely-packed scenarios, and not the exception, taking place only when an Elder with good judgment makes it happen. Maybe we could have a rule that AoE exists ONLY in open field fights? It's as ridiculous on campout trail battles as it is for bridge battles. Anyone remember the fights on the MaryDel trails in 2008? Craziness.

2.) Casting times are perf when it's not AoE. There were several Mages in that bridge battle last event, and I saw people dying to Fireball. It just wasn't a nonstop nuking of huge sections of the front line.

Even if casting times doubled, there'd probably still be an issue when a side has numerous Mages. If you have a bridge battle, it's going to last more than 40 seconds before the entire side collapses. The 5 Mages in the back throwing Fireball are going to have an entirely OP effect, as they often do.

I like playing a Mage, because I like magic in the game. However, I often choose to throw Magic Missile or Lightning, or aim my Fireball directly for an individual (face!) on the field, because I don't enjoy a fish-in-a-barrel scenario. Throwing pillows at the ground en masse, and having huge swaths of the line drop...it not only looks goofy, it's just plain TOO MUCH.

3.) Siege weapons are another issue. I have zero problem with siege weapons that actually look like siege weapons firing AoE. They take three people out of the fight to operate them, they aren't especially portable, they generally have limited ammunition that the Elder is not bound to return during the fight (unlike spell balls, which do not exist in-game...Spell Points are the ammunition :D)...in general, those are fine.

However, the bungeepults. Ugh. I am not sure how anyone ever approved/passed a "catapult" without a throwing arm. You know, the ONE THING all catapults have? Their key distinguishing feature? Every bungeepult should not only fail, it should be set on fire, and the ashes used to daily write "SHAME" on the forehead of the first person to introduce them to the realm.

I ain't mad at the people who use them now, but c'mon Darkon. Let's add some throwing arms to these damned things.
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