Proposal - Mercenaries

Forum for the discussion of proposals people would like to make.
Post Reply
Lady Ether
Posts: 14
Joined: 2012-04-16

Proposal - Mercenaries

Post by Lady Ether » 2013-05-08

Mercenaries
Current Rule:
Hiring out as a mercenary is considered to be an individual’s Offense Land Action for that event; however, he may participate in all applicable Defensive Land Actions for the country he has hired out to, as well as any Defensive Actions involving his own country.

New Rule:
Hiring out as a mercenary is considered to be an individual’s Offensive Land Action for that event. Mercenaries may only participate in either the Offensive or a Defensive action for the country that has hired them. Mercenaries may also participate in any Defensive actions involving his/her own country.

Rationale:
A mercenary is not a member of the country that has hired them – they are only hired for 1 action. This change would require countries that are hiring mercenaries to be more strategic in how they use their mercenaries – but still allows the mercenaries to fight in any defensive actions that their actual (surcoated) country is involved in

This puts the mercenaries more in line with the description above that line in the rulebook: Individual participants may only engage in one Offensive Land Action per event as described above. They may also participate in as many Defensive Land Actions as their country is involved in during that event; this includes defending against another country’s invasion and attacks at sea. When participating in Land Events, participants must play the character they selected during check‐in for all Land Actions.

Also - this is the way it was played for years. And it worked well.
Countess Ether Angelline of Elidor
Mistress of the Stag

LordTyrantCort
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 214
Joined: 2012-01-10

Re: Proposal - Mercenaries

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2013-05-08

100% consign because that is the way it was intended and a past LM and prez changed it years ago and was never passed by senate.
Live for the slaughter
GLORIUS death

Knight of Ched Nasad
Survivor of The Asylum Mal'volus
Acolyte of GodThyanaos
OS...

User avatar
Sir Orlffson
Posts: 18
Joined: 2012-09-16

Re: Proposal - Mercenaries

Post by Sir Orlffson » 2013-05-08

Cosign
Baron Dritz Orlffson
Master of the Raven

User avatar
Sir Sturmbjorne
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 245
Joined: 2012-06-11
Location: The Black Tower
Contact:

Re: Proposal - Mercenaries

Post by Sir Sturmbjorne » 2013-05-08

Cosigned.
Baron Wulfvin Sturmbjorne, KR, OSW, CC, OD, CM(Druid)
Knight of the Realm
King of Asaheim
Huskcarl and Jarl of Asaheim
President 2015
"Bound by honor, Released in death" - Felgardian Contract of Arms

User avatar
Tsukebe
Posts: 31
Joined: 2013-01-20

Re: Proposal - Mercenaries

Post by Tsukebe » 2013-05-08

cosign
[hr]
[move][font=center]Contact Me[/font][/move]
[hr]

User avatar
Lord Valfryn
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 761
Joined: 2012-01-10
Location: The Bloodspire Mountains
Contact:

Re: Proposal - Mercenaries

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-05-12

This is somewhat sticky. Yes we used to play this way, but I feel it's an added complication that adds annoyance to the headcounts of actions. It's also somewhat silly that we suspend disbelief of having surcoated members at two locations at the same time, yet for some reason , non surcoated can't be.

We also have the issue of lack of mercs. It may not have been an issue in the past, but hiring fifty mercs is tough enough to do. Doing it twice is pretty much impossible (not enough players on the field). I'm not sure if the idea of having a 70 man country battle was in the cards when this was designed. If the purpose is to get more mercs involved, I assure you, they're involved, and still there's a deficit.

This will literally make it so that there aren't enough mercs to field against larger teams. Fighting a large team is hard enough, fighting a large team with half the resources will become nearly impossible to win both fights.

If that's just part of the game, so be it. Make a large enough team so that your enemy CANT hire up to the size of your army... that's the key? I'm not sure that's the sort of tactic that anyone wants to have attached to their strategy. I was pretty certain that the land rules of our game were made so that smaller and larger teams could meet a middle ground for somewhat fair contests, and the shared mercs actually supported that notion.

Just some things to think about.
Image

Kai Firebrand
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 53
Joined: 2012-01-10

Re: Proposal - Mercenaries

Post by Kai Firebrand » 2013-05-12

I would cosign the proposal and in response say that more people would be hired out to fill the spots the same mercs would over and over. currently I could go on both defensive and offensive actions of the same country as well as my own. However with new rules I would have to choose where to help said country. Forcing them to find other allies. This also makes battles between nations more dynamic and not the same people over and over again. Sometimes it is a political battles that must be won and you need to know what allies you have for actions. Otherwise it is not the nations that decide battles but rather the mercs they bring all the time. I would rather see the nations that are at war be the deciding factor.
Master Kai Mortisius Firebrand (KMF)
SwordSlinger of No Quarter!
Knight of Tuesday
Warriors Guild Member
Knight of the Realm
Order of the Sword (OS)
Order of the Griffon (OG)
Spring Tournament '12 Grand Champion

User avatar
Thrush Svartehjertet
Posts: 1295
Joined: 2012-01-06
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Re: Proposal - Mercenaries

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-05-13

Kai Firebrand wrote:I would cosign the proposal and in response say that more people would be hired out to fill the spots the same mercs would over and over. currently I could go on both defensive and offensive actions of the same country as well as my own. However with new rules I would have to choose where to help said country. Forcing them to find other allies. This also makes battles between nations more dynamic and not the same people over and over again. Sometimes it is a political battles that must be won and you need to know what allies you have for actions. Otherwise it is not the nations that decide battles but rather the mercs they bring all the time. I would rather see the nations that are at war be the deciding factor.


YES!!! * YES!!!! Build your country, build relationships for war. When the only mercs very active in the realm were Bloody Axe and the Forgotten Ones we actually meant something to the out come of fights. Now the Darkon sidelines on war days are like the front of Home Depot in the morning for manual labor.

Thrush
berserk
Warriors Guild
Order of the Raven (Arts)
Order of the Mask (Fighter) 2012, 2013
Order of the Stag (Service to the Game)
"I'm going to sacrifice more than anyone else to make a play, I can promise you. And I'm going to hit you so you don't want to play [any] more.''

User avatar
Lord Valfryn
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 761
Joined: 2012-01-10
Location: The Bloodspire Mountains
Contact:

Re: Proposal - Mercenaries

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-05-14

Lols
Image

User avatar
Tsukebe
Posts: 31
Joined: 2013-01-20

Re: Proposal - Mercenaries

Post by Tsukebe » 2013-05-18

Kai Firebrand wrote:...currently I could go on both defensive and offensive actions of the same country as well as my own...


You are incorrect - this is explicitly against both the written, and 'spirit', rules.

A player may only go onto ONE single offensive action per turn (event). This has been in the rulebook for nearly 10 years.

Rulebook: "Hiring out as a mercenary is considered to be an individual’s Offense Land Action for that event; however, he may participate in all applicable Defensive Land Actions for the Country he has hired out to, as well as any Defensive Actions involving his own Country."

This means you CANNOT landsearch with your country, hire out to a country going to war, and fight with them, even defensively. If you fight in a war, not on your own soil, you cannot landsearch, attack a hex, or attack a country.

In fact - the way the rulebook is CURRENTLY written, you CANNOT be hired to assist in the attack of another country; as your offensive action would be accepting the coin to hire to an army, you would have no remaining offensive action to actually participate in the attack.

The re-wording of the rules will remove this typo, and deepen the level of strategy used in wars.

I fully support this proposal.
[hr]
[move][font=center]Contact Me[/font][/move]
[hr]

User avatar
Lord Valfryn
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 761
Joined: 2012-01-10
Location: The Bloodspire Mountains
Contact:

Re: Proposal - Mercenaries

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-05-18

Tsukebe wrote:
Rulebook: "Hiring out as a mercenary is considered to be an individual’s Offense Land Action for that event; however, he may participate in all applicable Defensive Land Actions for the Country he has hired out to, as well as any Defensive Actions involving his own Country."



The current Rulebook clearly states that you CAN go on someone elses offensive, stay for their Defensive, and still Defend your own Land if that's attacked. As does the ones from the past five years. We have been using these rules for some time now, so when did it change? My link to the 1994 book (Ace of Bass edition) wasn't loading... but I'm trying to figure out if everyone's hooked really deep on a "folk rule". Also we have been using this rule for 10 years now, as shown below...

From 2009:
"Hiring out as a mercenary is considered to be an individual’s
Offense Land Action for that event; however, he may
participate in all applicable Defensive Land Actions for the
Country he has hired out to, as well as any Defensive Actions
involving his own Country. "

From 2008:
"Hiring out as a mercenary is considered to be an individual’s
Offense Land Action for that event; however, he may
participate in all applicable Defensive Land Actions for the
Country he has hired out to, as well as any Defensive Actions
involving his own Country. "

From 2003:

"Hiring out as a mercenary is considered to be an individual’s
Offense Land Action for that event; however, he may
participate in all applicable Defensive Land Actions for the
Country he has hired out to, as well as any Defensive Actions
involving his own Country. "


From 1994:
"You can only fight in one war or landsearch a day."

Though this was when there were not simultaneous offensive actions between nations. Bendore, if I'm reading this right-

Each event a nation attacked (best of three) until they lost. After they lost, starting the next event-the previous defenders could counterattack any of the land that they had lost, but if they lost any of their 3/3's the war was over, and would need to redeclare their invasion and pay invasion costs.

So yes, here someone couldn't go on someone's offensive and any defensive... because he could only go on ONE action an event (this is before multiple actions).

What I want to know is if anyone has the missing link... the rulebook between 94 and 03 that clearly states that a player can't go on the offensive AND defensive action he's hired out to.

Maybe then we can talk about "fixing" the typo... because weather or not people have PLAYED it this way because of LM interpretation, this HAS been the rule for a decade now...
Image

User avatar
Sir Tyriel Firebrand
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 369
Joined: 2012-01-26

Re: Proposal - Mercenaries

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2013-05-19

Valfryn and Kai are correct.
~No Quarter!~
~Warriors Guild~
~Knight of Tuesday~
~"Winning is teaching, losing is learning"~

Lady Ether
Posts: 14
Joined: 2012-04-16

Re: Proposal - Mercenaries

Post by Lady Ether » 2013-05-20

The way i wrote this proposal was based on the a presidential ruling in 2007 and in 2008 that I enforced during that time - Some point afterwards I'm thought it went to Senate (and I'm thought it passed) - but didn't end up getting updated in the rule book.
Countess Ether Angelline of Elidor
Mistress of the Stag

LordTyrantCort
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 214
Joined: 2012-01-10

Re: Proposal - Mercenaries

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2013-05-20

I can tell you all, as being on of the people that was at the meetings of this land rules rewrite, that the intent of the original rule was to have a merc only be able to the field with the country that paid for them on either offensive OR the defensive action and to allow them to only defend the home country's land.

The rule never came into question until the Ched Nasad vs Lacoina war. And when it was ruled that the mistype would stand, Ched Nasad disagreed with it even at the debtroment of our numbers. So as with the tradition of the Darkon players we used the rule to field 45+ people against the 20 or so defenders. Showing how recockulus it was... Where if the rule was followed as intended it would of been more like 30ish vs 20ish.

It was never fix, and it holds to this day, it should be changed... But I have begun using the rule "I will play by your rules and beat you with them"
Live for the slaughter
GLORIUS death

Knight of Ched Nasad
Survivor of The Asylum Mal'volus
Acolyte of GodThyanaos
OS...

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests