Abandoning Land

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Snudge
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Abandoning Land

Post by Snudge » 2013-06-06

There is no way in the rules to abandon land currently. If you take the territory, the only way to not own it is to give it to someone else, get invaded or go defunct. This doesn't make alot of sense.

Consider this a discussion thread for a future proposal

I propose to add the following to land rules:
Hexes may be abandoned by using an offensive land action.

I'll write up the pretty language for the actual proposal later, but in effect you would be relocating the population of the hex using the army.
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Lord Valfryn
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Re: Abandoning Land

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-06-06

Makes sense, though I don't think it should even take up an offensive land action to do so, unless of course you can think of a way that it could be exploited.

Regardless, I'll cosign- as transfer is already legit under the same function (by ditching an offensive)
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Sir Aethilgar
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Re: Abandoning Land

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-06-06

I'll cosign as well. Though I'd like to bring up:

1) What happens to improvements? (Towns, roads, etc)
I would suggest that the hex becomes 'independent'. Future invasions of said hex must fight 'locals' and whatever fortifications are left behind.

2) What happens to adventure prizes? (Mines, guilds, etc)
I would suggest that the prizes remain though; in the absence of a player-built settlement, said prize becomes the den of a random creature per scouting rules.

3) Using an offensive land action allows the withdrawing country to raze the hex; pushing settlements/forts into ruins and removing adventure prizes.
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Snudge
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Re: Abandoning Land

Post by Snudge » 2013-06-06

I worry about abuse if there isn't a cost associated with it, but if we limit it to abandoning one hex per event that would limit any potential for it. Any structure/settlement is reduced to ruins. And you cannot abandon any of your original 13.
I really like the idea of razing a hex as an offensive action though.
You could even include salt in the process and make the hex non fertile while you are at it. All structures and settlements are reduced to ruins and the hex is left abandoned.

standard rules apply to re fertilizing and reconstructing ruins.

I'll also submit a proposal with whatever comes out of this to add ruined settlements to the rules, but dependent on this one passing since it won't make sense otherwise. They'll work just like ruined structures 1/2 build time except for settlements
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LordTyrantCort
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Re: Abandoning Land

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2013-06-07

1) What happens to improvements? (Towns, roads, etc)
I would suggest that the hex becomes 'independent'. Future invasions of said hex must fight 'locals' and whatever fortifications are left behind.
creating more work for the lm, and this may only happen once in a blue moon. But making yet another thing the lm will have to record. So no I would not agree to this part.

2) What happens to adventure prizes? (Mines, guilds, etc)
I would suggest that the prizes remain though; in the absence of a player-built settlement, said prize becomes the den of a random creature per scouting rules. if a country is dumb enough to abandon a hex with a prize, structure, mine or asset on it.... It's gone, ruined and salted. No hideout for warbands or monsters.

3) Using an offensive land action allows the withdrawing country to raze the hex; pushing settlements/forts into ruins and removing adventure prizes. agree, a country needs a sacrifice to do this.
And Ched Nasad has done this in the past and I believe that the land marshal had us use a OA to do it.
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Snudge
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Re: Abandoning Land

Post by Snudge » 2013-06-08

So the proposal itself would be as follows. (with Titus Suggestion)
Add the following to land rules

Abandoning Land
A country that no longer desires to own a hex may abandon the hex, any settlements or structures are reduced to ruins and adventure prizes not contingent on hex ownership remain on the hex. Only one hex maybe abandoned per event, this does not count as an offensive action. The original 13 may not be abandoned.

Razing Land
A country that no longer desires to own a hex may elect to use an offensive land action to raze a hex. All structures and settlements on a razed hex are reduced to ruins, all adventure prizes are removed and the hex is rendered barren (non fertile 1.5k silver to fix)

Scuttling a Boat
A country that no longer wants a boat may elect to use an offensive action to scuttle a boat. A scuttled boat is permanently destroyed

Ruined Settlements
Exactly as ruined structures except with settlements
Last edited by Snudge on 2013-06-09, edited 1 time in total.
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TitusV
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Re: Abandoning Land

Post by TitusV » 2013-06-08

Should also include scuttling of a boat.

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Re: Abandoning Land

Post by Tsukebe » 2013-06-10

Not a suggestion - more of a completely random idea:

Could the abandoning country pay silver out of it's coffers to pick a monster to place on the hex?

For example pay 20k silver in addition to their offensive, and drop a chromatic dragon or some other big bad beastie on a ruined, non-fertile, hex?

It would be a fun way to say 'if you want this land TAKE it', or as a way of setting up competitions between two countries, as the rules currently allow multiple land-search parties to scout the hex together (and fight each other for who controls the hex)...

It might be too much for the LM to track, but it would be a fun way to empty a country's coffers, and set-up a fun fight, instead of that large percentage 'no encounter' chance that most rangers now have 2 chances to hit......

You could even justify the silver expense claiming it was spent on breeding/luring/bribing the creatures to the hex.
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Re: Abandoning Land

Post by Kobalos » 2013-06-10

I'm all for countries being able to abandon stuff. That being said, I'd prefer the following:

Abandoning a hex or scuttling a ship shouldn't take a land action--that's like saying "I had to expend resources to stop expending resources." If I don't want to put resources into maintaining land or a naval asset, I should be able to just stop supporting it. Unmaintained assets can just crumble to dust.

Also, an abandoned hex should automatically revert to being "unsearched". The next time someone explores it, roll it up again.

If you have to have an RP explanation for everything, attribute both of these mechanics to the nasty forces of nature in Darkon. It makes things MUCH easier for the Land Marshal.
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Re: Abandoning Land

Post by Snudge » 2013-06-10

I don't really want to make the land marshal's job harder by making them keep track of what monster is on what hex. Just roll it again when its searched. Its true unmaintained assets crumble, but there isn't a maintenance cost associated with boats. They just make less money as they get bigger.
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Re: Abandoning Land

Post by Snudge » 2013-12-19

Add the following to the land rules
Abandoning a hex
Countries may abandon a hex they control, provided it is not one of their original thirteen; at the rate of one hex per event in which land actions are held. Any settlements or structures fall into ruins

Razing a hex
Countries may raze a hex they control, provided it is not one of their original thirteen; at the rate of one hex per event, in which land actions are held. All structures, settlements and prizes are destroyed. The land is also sown with salt, making the hex infertile. Razing a hex is an offensive land action

Ruined settlements
A ruined village takes 1 event to rebuild
A ruined town takes 3 event to rebuild
A ruined city takes 5 events to rebuild
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Re: Abandoning Land

Post by Kobalos » 2013-12-19

I see you're working on this again. Personally, I see no reason to track ruined settlements--just let it go to dust, and it takes the usual time & expense to start a new one. Especially with a village, where a lot of the buildings might be clay or some other natural, easily degraded material. But I'm not too worried about it either way.
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