Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Forum for the discussion of proposals people would like to make.
Sir Aethilgar
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 258
Joined: 2012-09-26

Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-06-21

So; brainstorm with me, the question has come up as to compensation/reward for winning a noble tournament and what form it should be in. At present; that reward is the Cavalier class. Many in the general populace of Darkon grumble about having an exclusive class specific to noble tournament winners. A proposal is on the table to open the Cavalier class up to the general populace. Should this proposal pass, then those who have won noble tournaments would receive no 'on the field' bonus.

What; if any, bonus should the winner of a noble tournament receive?
Baron Aethilgar Sheldwich

Facta non Verba

"Arguing on the forums is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After some time, you realize that you are getting dirty, but the pig is actually enjoying it."

Gor Strayhorn
Posts: 51
Joined: 2012-06-08

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by Gor Strayhorn » 2013-06-21

Tactical Mind: once per life, negates Area of Effect damage and effects within 3 ft of noble.

This gives a great tactical and useful ability that buffs those around the noble.

My two cents
Gor Strayhorn
Great Wolf - Battle Leader of Asaheim
Warden and Warhound of Asaheim
First Ranger of Asaheim

shroom2021
Darkonian
Posts: 162
Joined: 2012-01-10
Location: Somewhere in southern Elidor

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by shroom2021 » 2013-06-21

Stubborn: (Adventure only) Receipient of this award does not die easily. When a death wound is dealt to the player with this ability, they are instead considered mortaly wounded.

Sword Song: (Adventure only) Receipient of this award has the ability to go into a battle trance once per day. Effect duration lasts until the last enemy within a 30ft radius has been defeated(either mortally wounded or killed) and gifts the user with the ability to deal black damage with any weapon that normally deals white damage. Ability is derived from the user themselves and is not limited to a single weapon.

IE. Single white sword deals black, Single white axe deals black.
Dual wielding two white swords, both sword deal black
etc. etc.

Reinforced: (Both Adventure and Non-Adventure) Receipient of this award is gifted will never have a shield broken while they are using it. If a player wielding a shield breaking weapon strikes their shield, they may respond with the phrase "Reinforced!" thus negating any shield breaking effects. Spells that effect shields are not effected by this ability.

Hot pocket: (Adventure only) A spell caster may choose to "pouch" up to two spells at once.

Hero of the people: (RP) Upon winning the tourny the victor is declared the hero of the people. They may immediately initiate a challenge to the standing King of Darkon regardless of other factors (time on throne, time since last challenge, etc. etc...). This challenge can be through either personal combat or a crown war. Time line for challenge will follow normal rules as though it were a legitimate challenge.

Boneless: (Adventure only) Upon winning the tourny the victor is rewarded the title of boneless. This title allows them to ignore two arrows per day.

Ruthless: (Adventure only) Upon winning the tourny the victor is rewarded the title of ruthless. A person holding this title will no longer cause mortal wounds and will instead kill their opponent outright when he/she would normally sustain a mortal wound. The title holder must declare "Ruthless" to the defeated person in order for this to take effect.

Hand of the King: (Adventure only) Upon winning the tourny the victor is reward the title "The Hand of the Kind". A person holding this title has the ability to instantly kill or instantly heal all wounds on a single person per day. To use the ability the person must physically touch their target and declare "Hand of the King! Live/Die!" Armor is not effected by this ability and is not repaired or destroyed by it. Ability may only be used once per day regardless of whether it is used to rez or kill.

IE. John is the Hand of the King. John physically touches Sue and declares "Hand of the King, Die!" Sue dramatically falls down dead.

John is the Hand of the King. John physically touches a now dead Sue and declares "Hand of the King, Live!" Sue is alive again.


**All titles and abilities above would be held by a single person at a time and are lost when the next victor of the noble tourny is declared.**


Just a few thoughts

Sir Aethilgar
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 258
Joined: 2012-09-26

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-06-21

Hilarious! :P

Keep 'em coming!
Baron Aethilgar Sheldwich

Facta non Verba

"Arguing on the forums is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After some time, you realize that you are getting dirty, but the pig is actually enjoying it."

LordTyrantCort
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 214
Joined: 2012-01-10

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2013-06-22

Any player winning ORDER of the Sword, and becames a cav will gain rhino hide. (No joke)
Rhino hide- the player gains AC 1 skin, when wearing the required AC 4 breastplate.
Live for the slaughter
GLORIUS death

Knight of Ched Nasad
Survivor of The Asylum Mal'volus
Acolyte of GodThyanaos
OS...

User avatar
Lord Valfryn
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 761
Joined: 2012-01-10
Location: The Bloodspire Mountains
Contact:

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-06-22

"Armor of Heroes"- As above, but doesn't use the term "rhino".
Image

shroom2021
Darkonian
Posts: 162
Joined: 2012-01-10
Location: Somewhere in southern Elidor

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by shroom2021 » 2013-06-22

Soft Spoken: (Campout only) - Person holding this title has the ability to invoke total control over NPCs (up to 5) at a campout. This skill may only be used once per campout and is broken upon the casters death. To invoke, the person hold the title will say to a group of NPCs (up to 5), "I am X___X the soft spoken, you will follow me." The NPCs are now under the casters control for the remainder of the campout or until they are slain (both the NPCs and the caster).

Serpeants Breath: (Adventure Only) - Person holding this title has the ability to impose their will upon a single person per day. Only one command may be issued and the player who is being controlled must make every effort to carry out the command or die trying. Title holder uses the ability by saying the following: "I am X____X and you are now under my control. You will (insert command here)". Any command given by the title holder is limited by the following conditions:
1. The command may not put the player into any real physical danger or a situation they are uncomfortable with.
2. The command must be issued in character and may only apply to in character interactions
3. The command cannot ask a character to perform any function that is outside of their abilities. IE. A fighter may not "assassinate" anyone.
4. A command may be declined by a player, but must be done so OOC. If a command is declined, the ability is not used.

Wasp Sting: (Adventure only) As an award for winning, the player is awarded the Wasp Sting ability. Wasp Sting may be invoked once per day and expires upon the casters death. Wasp sting covers all weapons used by the caster in a painful poison. The poison will only be effective when the weapon draws blood. (IE. If armor absorbs the hit the poison has no effect) The poison will incapacitate a person (not kill) for 5 minutes during which time they are encouraged to roleplay a person in extreme discomfort. (The poison causes the victim to feel as though his/her skin is being perforated by thousands of worm sized parasites.)

I am the law!: (Adventure only) Player awarded the Dread title may issue a single free writ of assassination once per event. (Once per campout, once per day battle when using adventure rules). Writ may be executed by any assassin.

Snudge
Asst. Land Marshal
Posts: 301
Joined: 2012-01-10

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by Snudge » 2013-06-23

Arrogance- the winner of the order of the sword is now a fighting noble and may look down their nose at all other game participants that are not fighting nobles.


But in seriousness I don't think order of the sword recipients need a reward. The reward they get is a noble title, and the respect of their peers.
Rake, roustabout, vagabond and general no account sketchy
Some disreputable folks even go so far as to call me a mountebank
Holder of non-noble titles to numerous to mention

Banker of Darkon
OR, CM
Land Marshal

User avatar
Tsukebe
Posts: 31
Joined: 2013-01-20

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by Tsukebe » 2013-06-25

I agree with Snudge, any extra reward is just plain bad times.

These people already proved that they are THE best of the best. Do we really want to add an additional layer of power to the already PROVEN greatest?

How would it look to a newer player to see us rewarding the single greatest fighter(s) with more power then they already have?

If it is clear they need some additional reward, offer them a badge, or costuming ability, or additional retinue. Offer non-combat abilities. DO NOT offer extra combat abilities. One of the greatest things about Darkon is that any noob with skill can fight any vet and possibly win. We don't want to remove that.

Some of my earliest fond memories of Darkon are fighting against (then) Princes Keldar and Malkin and surviving (barely). If you give the top-most tier vets extra bonuses you make it nearly impossible for newer players to face them in a 'fair' fight.

If the 10 or so players who still field and have a cavalier class feel slighted by opening up the class, give them a higher number of people they can bring when fighting for Tarimstadt. Let them bring double, or triple even.

It makes being a cavalier, noble, and tourney winner still worthy of bragging rights, and his/her 'fame' would let them have a larger retinue.

Make them immune to assassination abilities - still a non-combat ability, it reinforces the value of what people have done and earned, and makes the prize worth the effort.

It wouldn't disrupt fighting on-field, it wouldn't slant the power towards vets.
[hr]
[move][font=center]Contact Me[/font][/move]
[hr]

Ericson
Darkonian
Posts: 105
Joined: 2012-01-10
Location: Elidor

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by Ericson » 2013-06-25

If there is anything that I have learned from the few years that I have participated in Darkon (and other games)....

Adding character abilities that can be used against other players makes classes OP. Then another class gets a new ability to counter the OP. So on and so forth, until every single player turns into Superman. Might be a good idea, for now, to focus on abilities that are not related to combat with other players and instead affect NPCs, land searches, or utilities.

User avatar
Amazing_Iltztafein
Darkonian
Posts: 548
Joined: 2012-01-06

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2013-06-25

Tsukebe wrote:Make them immune to assassination abilities - still a non-combat ability, it reinforces the value of what people have done and earned, and makes the prize worth the effort.

It wouldn't disrupt fighting on-field, it wouldn't slant the power towards vets.

Complete immunity for some of the people who are likely the biggest targets is a bit much.

How about this?

The Gods Smile Upon Thee - Once per event, an assassinated noble may hand the assassination writ to the elder and leave hades as if they had died normally. They will have no knowledge that they were assassinated (so they should not expect someone to hit them again), and all evidence of the crime disappears. Their chosen deity has just done them a favor and brought them back from the darkness to fight on in their name.

User avatar
Inox
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 571
Joined: 2012-01-09

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by Inox » 2013-06-29

I think where I was going with this initially is that you have a cadre of long-standing players who worked hard in game and out to get to a particular milestone. Now, we are discussing effectively giving away for free what was once very difficult to obtain.

Part of the appeal of a thing is often its exclusivity. If there were no restrictions on the use of noble titles, within an eye-blink every third person would be a zero effort knight, and it'd be even more meaningless than character race currently is.

If you are going to remove a privilege or award without there being real balance concerns or playability reasons, then in the interest of fairness, there should be some compensation.

It certainly does not have to be anything directly related to combat. However, there should be something equally meaningful given to what is taken away.
Prince Inox Elsonáge Thensiur
Swordslinger of No Quarter!
Warriors' Guild, OE, CCx8, CM(Warrior Mage)
Beast of BABALON

User avatar
Inox
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 571
Joined: 2012-01-09

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by Inox » 2013-06-30

Rather than just opening it up, let's get to flavor. The below classes would not be restricted to OSW Nobles, but would be open to all as a sort of prestige class:

Paladin (identical to current Cavalier):

* Eligible by sacrificing a 10th rank Fighter.

1st rank: Cure Light Wounds, Immunity to Disease, Cure Disease, & Light
2nd rank: Speak With Dead & Purify Food and Drink
3rd rank: Truthspeak & Sanctuary
8th rank: Last Rites & Turn Undead
15th rank: Holy Weapon

Anti-Paladin:

* Eligible by sacrificing a 10th rank Fighter.

1st rank: Cure Light Wounds, Immunity to Disease, Cure Disease, & Light
2nd rank: Speak With Dead & Desecrate
3rd rank: Truthspeak & Sanctuary
8th rank: Last Rites & Destroy Holy Weapon (only)
15th rank: Holy Weapon


Order of the Sword Abilities:

Paladins & Anti-Paladins who are members of the Order of the Sword (OSW) gain the following additional benefits:

1.) Immunity to Mind Control

Due to their indomitable wills, these characters are able to resist the efforts of others to influence or control them. This functions identically to the 7th rank Monk ability.

2.) Personalized Weaponry

One weapon is unrestricted on the color of its striking surface. Under no circumstances should a personal weapon be Relic green, nor should any cover be outside the scope of a fantasy LARP. Also, although it should almost go without saying, the color should not be blue or gold unless the weapon has that effect.

3.) Variants

Any Paladin/Anti-Paladin ability can be traded for any other character ability of equivalent level or lower, excepting the following list of prohibited choices: anything involving Spellballs, Cloaks, Gloves, Pouches, Hoods, or Headbands; Assassinate; Backstab; Mending; all Cure spells; Disguise.

Exercising the Variant option may be done once per OSW Paladin or Anti-Paladin character, and the changes must be recorded with the Secretary and added to the permanent player record. Anyone who has been or becomes King gets a second chance to make changes as above, as recognition of their exceptional efforts.

---

The above allows for a lot of personal flavor without making any material difference when you face that character on the field of battle. The only possible field fight advantage to Immunity to Mind Control comes vs. the two least-used Spellballs in the game: Nature Love & Feeblemind, both of which are Adventure-only.

Obviously the color of a weapon cover has no combat effect.

The prohibited list for the Variants takes away most options that are going to be field-effective as well. Anything remaining is either purely RP, or could only be potentially useful on Adventures. In any case, the power level is low...well lower than Sanctuary and Last Rights, which are in the class currently.

Anyhow, this is something I figured we could discuss. :D
Prince Inox Elsonáge Thensiur
Swordslinger of No Quarter!
Warriors' Guild, OE, CCx8, CM(Warrior Mage)
Beast of BABALON

Sir Aethilgar
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 258
Joined: 2012-09-26

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-07-02

Nobles of Darkon could be granted a single hex of land with a tower by the Crown. They may collect seasonal rents from these lands. Like the Royal City; a Noble's tower may be laid siege to but may not be captured. A landed noble is entitled to a coffer maintained by the land marshal.
Baron Aethilgar Sheldwich

Facta non Verba

"Arguing on the forums is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After some time, you realize that you are getting dirty, but the pig is actually enjoying it."

LordTyrantCort
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 214
Joined: 2012-01-10

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2013-07-02

Money is almost to the point of uselessness. So that is to a vet, or a person that makes it to the point of winning OSW is not worth it.
Live for the slaughter
GLORIUS death

Knight of Ched Nasad
Survivor of The Asylum Mal'volus
Acolyte of GodThyanaos
OS...

Sir Aethilgar
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 258
Joined: 2012-09-26

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-07-02

LordTyrantCort wrote:Money is almost to the point of uselessness. So that is to a vet, or a person that makes it to the point of winning OSW is not worth it.


Heh, I can only tackle one problem at a time. :P
Baron Aethilgar Sheldwich

Facta non Verba

"Arguing on the forums is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After some time, you realize that you are getting dirty, but the pig is actually enjoying it."

LordTyrantCort
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 214
Joined: 2012-01-10

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2013-07-02

Edit because I was being redundant.

IF cav gets opened up, OSW winners should get some kind of boon. Like gap armor when wearing plate on hit zones. Or too holy to die, free get out of hades card. Or head plate without wearing a helmet, holy brain ward.
Live for the slaughter
GLORIUS death

Knight of Ched Nasad
Survivor of The Asylum Mal'volus
Acolyte of GodThyanaos
OS...

User avatar
fingers630
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 1613
Joined: 2012-01-11
Location: In his Anti Magic Pants

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by fingers630 » 2013-07-02

I like the Idea of Order of the Sword winners getting a version of a permanent "Get our of Hades" card. Call it "Get back in the fight" and make it so those who have won the OSW have a specific marking (sash, belt marker, whatever) that enables them to bypass waiting 12 minutes in Hades if they choose to. They simply check in with Hades elder, present their symbol, and get back to the action.

This is a boon, that is not overpowered (free plate head armor), but still gives something to someone who has "earned" it through the ring.
Justicar Lucius Alexander Crum
Archmage of Elidor and Lord of the Realm
Queen of the Silly People

______________________________________________________________________
"I'll grapple with greasy fingers... Just sayin'..."-Thrush

User avatar
Inox
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 571
Joined: 2012-01-09

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by Inox » 2013-07-02

Any thoughts on what I wrote? I don't think any of that could be termed overpowered.
Prince Inox Elsonáge Thensiur
Swordslinger of No Quarter!
Warriors' Guild, OE, CCx8, CM(Warrior Mage)
Beast of BABALON

User avatar
Thrush Svartehjertet
Posts: 1295
Joined: 2012-01-06
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-07-03

fingers630 wrote:I like the Idea of Order of the Sword winners getting a version of a permanent "Get our of Hades" card. Call it "Get back in the fight" and make it so those who have won the OSW have a specific marking (sash, belt marker, whatever) that enables them to bypass waiting 12 minutes in Hades if they choose to. They simply check in with Hades elder, present their symbol, and get back to the action.


Jumping jiminy crickets batman. I'd rape an entire campout. That sounds like the most amazingly awesome thing ever.

Thrush
berserk
Warriors Guild
Order of the Raven (Arts)
Order of the Mask (Fighter) 2012, 2013
Order of the Stag (Service to the Game)
"I'm going to sacrifice more than anyone else to make a play, I can promise you. And I'm going to hit you so you don't want to play [any] more.''

LordTyrantCort
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 214
Joined: 2012-01-10

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by LordTyrantCort » 2013-07-03

Seb, time to get in the ring!
Are you ready to nobllllllllllllllllllle!
Live for the slaughter
GLORIUS death

Knight of Ched Nasad
Survivor of The Asylum Mal'volus
Acolyte of GodThyanaos
OS...

User avatar
Thrush Svartehjertet
Posts: 1295
Joined: 2012-01-06
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-07-03

Never. I'll fight in the ring for Order of The Sword, but not a noble title. King Slindar heroically knighted me already, that's plenty, I still haven't washed that off... lulz


Thrush
berserk
Warriors Guild
Order of the Raven (Arts)
Order of the Mask (Fighter) 2012, 2013
Order of the Stag (Service to the Game)
"I'm going to sacrifice more than anyone else to make a play, I can promise you. And I'm going to hit you so you don't want to play [any] more.''

Sir Aethilgar
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 258
Joined: 2012-09-26

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-07-03

I think that people forget that to be invited to fight in the ring and/or to gain a noble title ~is~ the reward. It's a reward for service done for the club; it's recognition for time spent. The path to knighthood may be a path to glory... but it shouldn't be a path to power... otherwise people will pursue it for all the wrong reasons.

If Order of the Sword title holders are to be given an in game perk; I think it should have zero effect 'on the field'. It should be 'fluff'... RP... meta-gamey.

At least, that is my opinion.
Baron Aethilgar Sheldwich

Facta non Verba

"Arguing on the forums is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After some time, you realize that you are getting dirty, but the pig is actually enjoying it."

User avatar
Inox
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 571
Joined: 2012-01-09

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by Inox » 2013-07-03

I don't see why there can't be a reward that's not overpowering.

You are proposing taking away a reward where there are no balance concerns, just a desire to open it up to the realm at large.

If you take something away from people who have earned it, give something back.
Prince Inox Elsonáge Thensiur
Swordslinger of No Quarter!
Warriors' Guild, OE, CCx8, CM(Warrior Mage)
Beast of BABALON

User avatar
Thrush Svartehjertet
Posts: 1295
Joined: 2012-01-06
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Re: Open Discussion - Order of the Sword ability?

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-07-03

I think that people forget that to be invited to fight in the ring and/or to gain a noble title ~is~ the reward. It's a reward for service done for the club; it's recognition for time spent.


This is exactly why I didn't pee on Slindar's shoe when he knighted me. He gave me a title under his crown for prowess on the battlefield. I said long ago (about 8 or 9 years ago), I would only gain title through winning in combat, nothing else.

I want to be the most well rounded fighter, and Order of the Sword was the first thing that attracted my attention when it came to titles.


Thrush
berserk
Warriors Guild
Order of the Raven (Arts)
Order of the Mask (Fighter) 2012, 2013
Order of the Stag (Service to the Game)
"I'm going to sacrifice more than anyone else to make a play, I can promise you. And I'm going to hit you so you don't want to play [any] more.''

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests