Getting rid of Guild Masters making poison

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Cog
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Getting rid of Guild Masters making poison

Post by Cog » 2013-06-29

Current Cosigners:
-Joey Kane (Old Sarum/Rithaine)
-Jeffery Hager (Xialias of Kindred)
-Ryan Hurd (Karsis, Leader of Nurgle)


Current Rule:
At 8th rank, Assassin Guildmasters may ‘Make Poison’ during adventures, exactly as described for Thieves. Only a Guildmaster may make poison, and he is restricted to making death class poisons only.

I would like to remove this rule/ability and replace it with
New Rule Options:
1: At 8th rank, Assassin Guildmasters may write 5 writs of assassination with the last rites spell added to the writs.
2: At 8th rank, Assassin Guildmasters may write 5 writs of assassination all with the signature poison ability added to the writs. These writs must be signified by a visible purple "X" on the writ as well as the guildmaster symbol.

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Kobalos
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Re: Getting rid of Guild Masters making poison

Post by Kobalos » 2013-07-01

Unfortunately, I think having 15 "Last Rite Writs" floating around every adventure day is a bit much, and that's only with the three current guilds. There's nothing stopping us from adding more guilds in the future if the assassin population becomes significantly larger.

I like the idea of removing general poison making from the GMs, only because it's so lame (already restricted to only GMs and only Death class). It makes sense to attach it to the writs as you did. You might want to specify death class poison, and that it does not require payment to the Poison Marshal (as a small benefit).
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Kobalos
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Re: Getting rid of Guild Masters making poison

Post by Kobalos » 2013-07-01

Ah, just read the other proposal--now I see what a Signature Poison is. You might want to just add this to the other proposal to reduce confusion and not jam up Senate with the possibility of only one of them passing.
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Kobalos
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Re: Getting rid of Guild Masters making poison

Post by Kobalos » 2013-07-01

Last comment, I swear. If you go with the "sig poison" option, you should clarify that if it's the guildmaster's poison (assuming he's also lvl 20, according to the other proposal) or the assassin's poison (in that case, does the assassin get the ability even if he's <20th rank?).
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Lord Cailen Sendor
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Re: Getting rid of Guild Masters making poison

Post by Lord Cailen Sendor » 2013-07-05

"with the last rites spell added to the writs."

not a good idea unless you can convince me of the need for this as it will bump the ability to a combination of 2 current class abilities in one action by one class removing the need to use a scroll or a cleric to last rights
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fingers630
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Re: Getting rid of Guild Masters making poison

Post by fingers630 » 2013-07-06

Personally I think we should just get rid of Guild Masters...
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Inox
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Re: Getting rid of Guild Masters making poison

Post by Inox » 2013-07-06

fingers630 wrote:Personally I think we should just get rid of Guild Masters...



Agreed. I also don't think we need to make the most RP-penalizing & griefer-prone ability in the game more powerful.

For each time I've seen an assassination result in an enjoyable RP experience for all involved, there are at least 20 times where it's created all sorts of arguments and bad blood. That's a piss poor ratio.

...and there's always been plenty of "penalty assassination" aka griefing; anyone who says otherwise isn't being honest.

I've said it so many times: assassinate penalizes the people who put the most into their character, while it's not even a noticeable hardship for the people who care the least. We have to be a little daft to celebrate this mechanic.
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Re: Getting rid of Guild Masters making poison

Post by exoduscleric » 2013-07-06

I think we need to take a serious look at neutering the effects of assassination, not looking at ways to make it more difficult to avoid. It's the one ability that can destroy someone's fun for the weekend. People spend money on costumes, props, and gear for the character they want to play and then drive 2 hours+ to campout only to have someone else take away their ability to do everything they'd want to do for the weekend. In a game where we tell folks not to worry as they'll be back in play in 12 minutes, it just doesn't really seem to fit in as a mechanic. I have enough characters that it's not really a big headache for me (outside of lugging around extra stuff), but I've seen how it's effected the fun of others over the years. Many folks only have one character. That's who they want to play. That's what's fun for them.

I would be against this proposal. Assassination is extremely powerful as is without making it even more difficult to deal with.

Dane

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Inox
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Re: Getting rid of Guild Masters making poison

Post by Inox » 2013-07-06

Agreed fully.

There is no amount of fun being an assassin can give you that's worth the fun you take away from someone else by removing their entire character for 24 hours. I don't care if it literally gets you off.

I mean, *, why stop with just taking a character away for 24 hours? Why not let the assassin take away some ranks as well. All the ranks! Start over!

If your fun depends on giving another player a penalty that goes beyond defeating them in battle, your definition of fun is suspect. Seek empowerment elsewhere.

Assassinate, Looting, and Pick Pockets should ALL be things that work against NPCs only, and that give the team using them at the right times a substantial advantage in winning adventures and campouts.
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fingers630
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Re: Getting rid of Guild Masters making poison

Post by fingers630 » 2013-07-06

You've been assassinated. Please leave the campout now! LOL
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Re: Getting rid of Guild Masters making poison

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-07-07

-Inox- wrote:Agreed fully.

There is no amount of fun being an assassin can give you that's worth the fun you take away from someone else by removing their entire character for 24 hours. I don't care if it literally gets you off.

I mean, *, why stop with just taking a character away for 24 hours? Why not let the assassin take away some ranks as well. All the ranks! Start over!

If your fun depends on giving another player a penalty that goes beyond defeating them in battle, your definition of fun is suspect. Seek empowerment elsewhere.

Assassinate, Looting, and Pick Pockets should ALL be things that work against NPCs only, and that give the team using them at the right times a substantial advantage in winning adventures and campouts.


I agree about assassinate. I don't mind looting / pick pockets being an avenue for 'adventure items' and/or 'Darkon owned items' to be redistributed.
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Inox
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Re: Getting rid of Guild Masters making poison

Post by Inox » 2013-07-08

The problem with Looting & Pick Pockets (this probably needs its own thread) is that almost no one wants to carry their coin on them. People hide it in camp, or the trunks of their cars, etc., and only bring it out briefly for specific things at check-in, or to deliver to an assassin.

So, this pretty much prevents us from ever having a thriving in-game economy.

Look at virtually every MMO out there, and you will see that you never have to worry about losing your coin. The trope of the adventurer coming into town and buying goods is known to everyone. We can't really have that kind of thing, because as soon as anyone has 3 coins in their pocket, it's "redistributed" immediately.

Even people who aren't Thieves are searching pouches constantly, and it's just not promoting a lot of fun overall. It's kind of like the immensely stupid old (now banned) custom of "stripping silver" from silver weapons. People felt like that was essential to have, but wow, it's been so much better without it.

Thieves would still be able to pick the pockets of, and loot the bodies of, NPCs. A Thief would be a constant choice for an adventuring party (as it should be), even when dungeon crawls weren't imminent. Need the item in the pouch of a powerful NPC you maybe can't kill at the moment? Maybe you can parley, and the Thief can get it. Did you just slay some NPCs, and now they need to be thoroughly searched? Thief again.

Then, people would be able to walk around with some coins in their pouches and start using that coin in-character, during the gameplay. Not just squirreling it away, or stealthily moving it from one camp to another unnoticed. We'd have a chance at setting up an in-character economy.

I mean, like I said in another thread, how popular would going shopping be if you had a 95% chance of losing your wallet to mugging on the way there, every time?
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Snudge
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Re: Getting rid of Guild Masters making poison

Post by Snudge » 2013-07-08

There are plenty of ways around being looted. But honestly as often as I loot people and NPCs. I get more coin from people than from NPCs. So if you make pickpockets and looting NPC only, you are basically making them useless skills since NPCs never have anything anyway. The last time I got anything from an NPC item wise the Kindred genie/djinn campout and it was a can't miss adventure item. I haven't gotten coin from an NPC since the BAMC el dorado campout. And that was four, maybe five years ago.

You'd have to convince me that the NPCs would actually have coin or items, before you would be able to get my support. And yeah we probably could make another discussion thread for this topic. Then again this proposal is definitely a dead stick, and we can safely hijack this thread without consequence I'm sure
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Inox
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Re: Getting rid of Guild Masters making poison

Post by Inox » 2013-07-09

Snudge wrote:There are plenty of ways around being looted. But honestly as often as I loot people and NPCs. I get more coin from people than from NPCs. So if you make pickpockets and looting NPC only, you are basically making them useless skills since NPCs never have anything anyway.


I seldom get anything from people anyhow, and I am a high-rank Thief. At least NPC treasure can be easily solved by having adventure hosts "stock" them with gold.
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fingers630
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Re: Getting rid of Guild Masters making poison

Post by fingers630 » 2013-07-09

I still have a bag of gold from selling potions to earlier adventures I ran. I will definitely be giving some loot to monsters this year, just trying to find a good adventure day to do so at.
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