Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Forum for the discussion of proposals people would like to make.
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Thrush Svartehjertet
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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-07-12

Also, eff message boards that don't either resize images or stretch... grrrrrrr


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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-07-12

I think that it looks like a t-tunic and sweatpants... just good enough to get you on the field but not what a vet should be shooting for.
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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by fingers630 » 2013-07-13

burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrn
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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2013-07-14

Whats funny about that is that actually looks really good compared to most peoples weapons. Even without a crossguard it looks better.
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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-07-14

Sir Tyriel Firebrand wrote:Whats funny about that is that actually looks really good compared to most peoples weapons. Even without a crossguard it looks better.


True; some weapons look much worse... but that doesn't make it look awesome; just provides a point of reference.
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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-07-15

Sir Aethilgar wrote:I think that it looks like a t-tunic and sweatpants... just good enough to get you on the field but not what a vet should be shooting for.


I think you're making a stand based on not wanting to be wrong... Other than platidipping stuff on it, it's as nice as all purchased foam weapons can be. And it looks representative of a gladius or something. Whatever... you love crossguards and bars. Have at, it's not gonna change, so you can be right.

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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-07-15

fingers630 wrote:burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrn


Only if it was correct.

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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by fingers630 » 2013-07-15

Oh it was correct =P
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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Inox » 2013-07-15

The idea of a sword needing quillons is about as outdated as players needing to wear either knee-high boots OR LEGGINGS.

Yes, that was once a rule. A stupid rule, which we abolished.

Bars make no real sense in today's Darkon either. They were, as Steve admits, a rules compromise: Back in the day, with the tech we had, it was hard to make non-chained Yellow that wasn't dangerous and/or ridiculously slow and cumbersome.

In case y'all missed it:

Sir Aethilgar wrote:The bar weapon (my proposal) was primarily proposed to give clerics a 'yellow' weapon option that was not terrible or of goofy construction. This was, of course, back in the 80s when we still used 3"+ of open cell foam on shield faces. The weapon tech wasn't at a place where maces, hammers, clubs, and the like could be made both safe and wieldy.


Today, "speed bats" are ridiculously easy to construct, and are even faster than swords. The bar merely keeps people from using other designs of sword. Some people will always use quillons; maybe they like the way they look, or maybe (like me) they use them to keep their weapon from falling out of the bottom of their sheath.

However, I see very little benefit in forcing everyone to put quillons on their swords. It's not a safety issue, it's not a playability issue, and it certainly confers no on-the-field advantage.

Get rid of bars, and get rid of the quillon requirement. Let's make this a proposal already.
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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-07-15

Make it two proposals; one I'd support and the other I would not.
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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-07-15

So you'd support all yellow weapons must be round (maces, bats, clubs), all whites and blacks must be flat (whatever current dimensions are)?

But you are firm on your belief that quillions make a sword a sword? Thusly a quillionless sword would no longer be a viable weapon in Darkon?

Am I understanding your position correctly?

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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by fingers630 » 2013-07-15

Personally I dont see why we cant make quillions optional, make bars yellow damage swords with yellow tape, and make swords white damage swords with white tape.

Who cares if bars are historically accurate. We have people playing Drow and throwing Fireballs. Colored tape and a person calling out their damage is perfectly fine when calculating your hits. If they dont call damage, and you cant see what they are hitting you with, take it as a yellow. If they complain, tell them to call their damage.
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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-07-15

I'd support a do what you want, we're all frown ups rule as well... but we both know that will never happen.

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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-07-15

I don't care about quillions so long as "bars" aren't a cleric legit weapon anymore.

then,
Blunt= round
Slashing = flat

done.
Since I also give zero * about "warping" the weapon of clerics, assume all 1 handed weapons are all metal. or specify that "warp wood" applies to shields, 2 handed weapons and/or weapons over 36 inches.

Done. Simple. Walk it off/ get over it.
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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-07-15

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:So you'd support all yellow weapons must be round (maces, bats, clubs), all whites and blacks must be flat (whatever current dimensions are)?

But you are firm on your belief that quillions make a sword a sword? Thusly a quillionless sword would no longer be a viable weapon in Darkon?

Am I understanding your position correctly?


I'm firm on my position that 'classic' sword silhouettes have a crossguard of one type or another and, as such, removing the requirement to have them would in turn remove that classic silhouette from the field. It would look much more like some other padded games rather than like Darkon. Now, are some quillions terrible? Yes, clearly. So address those terrible quillions. Give warnings and failures for their construction and the quality will increase.

As to 'yellow' weapon shapes; as I said, the reason behind my 'bar' proposal was almost entirely due to the weapon tech of the time. That tech has improved to such a degree that the bar is no longer required to make a viable non-chained 1 handed yellow. That all said, there are excellent examples of flat, blunt weapons in history. War clubs from North America, South America, and Polynesia are prime examples. In the end, I'm ambivalent to the removal of bars from Darkon. The technical reason to have them is gone but there are historical examples for flat clubs. Now... if somebody would come out as a Maori warrior... we'd be all set!
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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by shroom2021 » 2013-07-15

Next we will need a brown cover for blunt weapons.

There are too many practical examples of cross less swords in both medieval history and fantasy literature to mandate quillions be used. it makes more sense to identify them by the flat vs round idea than by what it looks like from the side lines. If you want people to look good, encourage them to work on their costume.

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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2013-07-16

I agree there are plenty of examples of both. I prefer smooth, crisp gameplay with easily recognized components. If we can associate round with blunt, flat with sharp-- that's about as good as it's going to get (imho). No matter what, some form of "realism" is going to have to be sacrificed, but I feel the blunt/sharp axis is the one that makes the most sense while ditching "mandatory quillions".
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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-07-16

Sir Aethilgar wrote:removing the requirement to have them would in turn remove that classic silhouette from the field. It would look much more like some other padded games rather than like Darkon. Now, are some quillions terrible? Yes, clearly. So address those terrible quillions. Give warnings and failures for their construction and the quality will increase.


Dude... I don't even know what to say... FIRST of all, this isn't about other games, it's about Darkon. SECOND, no one will ever STOP you from putting quillions on YOUR sword. THIRD, until we use something that ACTUALLY looks like a sword, not a 1.5" cloth covered 2x4, your argument is kinda dumb... Sorry, that's the nicest way I can put it... I just cannot see your side of this.

shroom2021 wrote:If you want people to look good, encourage them to work on their costume.


For real, your noobs are out there in a neckhole bed sheet tunic with an iron on symbol, sweat pants and a t shirt after having been out for months, but QUILLIONS are the line between Darkon and other games?

I quit.


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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Amazing_Iltztafein » 2013-07-16

Look, give up this whole "let's get rid of bars" thing. It was resoundingly defeated last time. There is no point in trying it again, what, a year and a half later at most?

Maybe change the rules to not require quillions (not even a real word), but that's it. That might actually pass.

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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-07-16

I'd be sold on that too. And yeah, can anyone do the etymology on that fake ass word? I wondered about that...

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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Sir Aethilgar » 2013-07-16

Ultimately; judging by the length and passion in the topic, this, too, should be discussed at Senate. I've already got my name on a few unpopular proposals for the sake of having them discussed formally; somebody else put these forward, get them seconded, and let's go.

Facta, Non Verba -- Deeds, Not Words; do something about it and put the proposal forward. Forum-warrioring gets tiring.
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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Inox » 2013-07-16

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:I'd be sold on that too. And yeah, can anyone do the etymology on that fake ass word? I wondered about that...

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It's QUILLONS. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/quillons?&path=/
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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2013-07-16

Dammit, so it's the nerd game version of "acrossed". I'll have to make sure to drop the i.

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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by fingers630 » 2013-07-16

I want a neckhole bed sheet with an iron on symbol :(
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Re: Clerics are overpowered-Discussion

Post by Kobalos » 2013-07-17

fingers630 wrote:I want a neckhole bed sheet with an iron on symbol :(


Then you can bore a hole in your mattress and sleep like a lawn dart!

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