Searching the Living

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Snudge
Asst. Land Marshal
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Searching the Living

Post by Snudge » 2013-07-26

So I need a ruling on whether or not its permissible to search the living.
Assume I have paralysis poisoned someone can I physically search them?
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Havoc
Squire of the Realm
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Re: Searching the Living

Post by Havoc » 2013-07-26

Looting only works on the dead. Living or mortally wounded players may only be pickpocketed per the rulebook, and then only if unaware of your action.

Snudge
Asst. Land Marshal
Posts: 301
Joined: 2012-01-10

Re: Searching the Living

Post by Snudge » 2013-07-26

I agree looting only works on the dead, but i said search not loot.
There are a multitude of ways to take a live captive, why could you not physically search them while they are incapacitated by whatever capture method you used?

Pickpockets is specifically prohibited against incapacitated people under its description.

Here's an example of what I'm getting at.
I capture you via hold person/paralysis, or w/e. I take you captive and bind/gag you under the captives rule. Now assume you have some adventure item on you that I need/want. Why do I have to kill and loot you for the item? Why if you are bound and gagged couldn't I just search you physically for the item.


All of this assume that I have your permission for the physical search, otherwise we're going with the I'm searching this and that routine until I find what I'd be looking for
Rake, roustabout, vagabond and general no account sketchy
Some disreputable folks even go so far as to call me a mountebank
Holder of non-noble titles to numerous to mention

Banker of Darkon
OR, CM
Land Marshal

exoduscleric
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 41
Joined: 2012-04-10

Re: Searching the Living

Post by exoduscleric » 2013-07-27

Under the rules for captives, we state that "Participants may physically search other dead participants, however, all participants are prohibited from searching for or hiding ingame items in sensitive areas of the body such as the groin, breasts, or buttocks. A participant attempting to search a dead participant must say, "I am not a thief, may I search your body?" If the answer is yes, they may physically search the participant. If the answer is no, the searcher must say, "I am not a thief, I am searching the [object] on your [location]," where the object is a particular container or piece of gear such as a specific pouch, pocket, or article of visible clothing, and the [location] is one of the basic thief search locations. For example, "I am searching the bracer on your right arm," or "I am searching the tunic sleeve on your
right arm." The dead participant would be required to give up any in‐game item(s) in that location
."

Logically I would think that the above would apply to incapacitated players as well. That would make sense. Unfortunately , I would think an official clarification would be a good idea to back that up , which I think is what you were going for. I also think a minor rules tweak might be proposed to looting to make it apply to "incapacitated" characters (dead, paralyzed, or probably even bound per the darkon rules). Or maybe even an addition beyond that so players can allow themselves to be looted with permission as well. It would open up things for roleplaying .(Are you hiding anything? No. I am a thief, do you allow me to loot you? Oh..... that fireball scroll.... I wasn't going to do anything with that at court....promise.)

Pick pockets doesn't offer any help either "The Thief must then, in the witness of the Elder, place his hand on the item to be stolen or the specific area where the item(s) are contained (pouch, boot, shield, etc). The victim must not be aware of the attempt, and cannot be completely incapacitated (paralyzed, agony ,poisoned, Entangled, affected by Hold Person, etc.). "

This looks like something that should be cleaned up for future rules. I don't think it was ever the intent that there be no way to search the living. I think this is an issue of poor wording that should be corrected to reflect common sense.

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Inox
Knight of the Realm
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Re: Searching the Living

Post by Inox » 2013-07-28

I think we should change "Looting" to "Searching".

Allow it to be conducted on anyone who is either voluntarily submits to the search, or who is incapable of fighting back (paralyzed, bound, all limbs Lighted, dead, etc.)

For NPCs it would find all transferrable items. For PCs, unless the search was voluntary, it would turn up only Adventure-specific items.

Modify Pick Pockets to be only usable on NPCs, and we might have people actually carrying gold now & then. :D
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Lord Cailen Sendor
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Re: Searching the Living

Post by Lord Cailen Sendor » 2013-07-28

after a brief reading this is what we have

1. no rules in place to handle searching a live player / paralyzed player / bound player

2. levels of incapacity ... meaning bound is definably different then paralyzed and frozen you can not do because of the "ice" lets say

so in a effort as a bridge gap to handle such situations I will suggest that we do the following...

if they are bound...
they still can move by the rules and if they can get a blade cut themselves free so there is 0 reason to think they would be a easy target to search - being bound does not stop people from using truth speak against them so because of the rules as they are written a bound player can not be searched - remember you can search visually and use spells to get info from them

if they are paralyzed...
in game it is as if they are dead so I have 0 issues with allowing the search rules to be used to search a paralyzed person and yes if they live threw the searching they will remember being searched and the searching must be done in the manner set in the rules as if they were dead

and yes someone should write something up to change the wording on this in the rulebook and propose it at the next senate meeting which is scheduled in the official forums section
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