Increased Dues Question

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Kesrya
Posts: 35
Joined: 2012-03-19

Re: Increased Dues Question

Post by Kesrya » 2012-04-09

Yeah - what Cailen said. Machate - I am way past the Senate meets at events, NC/EB doesn't meet at events. I totally get that. I was previously wondering if there was an insurance coverage issue, and Cailen answered that to my satisfaction.

What I am on now is your second statment - there are multiple examples of EB, NC, elders, and marshalls who in fact do not check in and pay dues and do not get costumed because they leave the event immediately after performing their out-of-game function. They do not participate in any in-game portion of the event. This rule needs to apply to everyone, not just Senate. I personally think that is unfair and unreasonable and am advocating that a way be found to allow members participating solely out-of-game be comped - but until that way is found, the rule needs to be uniformly applied.

Cailen - I admire what you did yesterday - and there have been many times where I did similar - dressed, paid, and left shortly thereafter.

And I'm wondering what about it do you feel was "participation" at the event? You say you dropped off props to Fingers and you dropped off weapons to people who had purchased them from you. I don't think either of these would constitute participation, but clearly you do. Can you speak to that a little? I was at the event yesterday for a total of 30 minutes. I dropped off my husband, who did pay to participate, moved my son's carseat to the undressed EB member's car, and then waited until he was done check-in and left with him to go to the family easter event. I didn't get dressed in costume (though the dress I was wearing was handmade in a medieval Italian town - so it could have passed - but that is besides the point), and I didn't pay - because to me, I wasn't participating. I was dropping off a member and leaving. From your description, I would say you did the same - you dropped things off and left.

I'm asking because I think it is important for the understanding of assuring the rule is uniformly applied.
Lady Kesrya Ravine, Mage of Elidor
Torynn, Ranger of Elidor
Fouchon, Party Girl of Redemption

Elidorian Minister of Information
Chair of the Unofficial Elidorian Welcoming Committee
Unofficial Minister of Bitch
Goddess of Cheesy Bacon Potatoes

Kesrya
Posts: 35
Joined: 2012-03-19

Re: Increased Dues Question

Post by Kesrya » 2012-04-09

Lord Dubh wrote:I do not see the two thing being related and frankly I find the entire argument petty.


Sorry to disappoint you too, Mr. President. It seems this thread is pissing off everyone who has a difference of opinion as to the how the rules should be applied. I'm making a good faith attempt to assure that rules are 1) understood and 2) uniformly enforced. I fail to see how such an inquiry is petty, but if you would prefer, I could stop inquiring when a rule is not very clear or when I see a rule being broken by many and only enforced on a few, and rather just make up my own answer to the question - of course, then someone might argue that I'm exploiting a grey area, and I'd get punished for that.
Lady Kesrya Ravine, Mage of Elidor
Torynn, Ranger of Elidor
Fouchon, Party Girl of Redemption

Elidorian Minister of Information
Chair of the Unofficial Elidorian Welcoming Committee
Unofficial Minister of Bitch
Goddess of Cheesy Bacon Potatoes

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Lord Dubh
Knight of the Realm
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Location: Tarimstadt

Re: Increased Dues Question

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-04-09

The corporation is my interest and in the interest of the corporation certain decisions had to be made and this was one of them. I will be happy to better explain in June when I hope to be presenting the bylaws proposal to the club membership.

In the mean time, attendance to Senate at and event is part of the event. Being a spectator, dropping off, picking up, etc. is not part of the event nor do I think collecting names/money is part of the event.

HOWEVER - Those checking equipment should NOT be doing so unless they are paying the fee for that day, again it speaks to our coverage and liability. Can't have people who are not officially on-duty checking equipment at risk of liability.
Sir Bendore Dubh of Dai-Dagan, CR, KR, OG, OR, CB, CC
Master Thief of Darkon


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Lord Cailen Sendor
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Re: Increased Dues Question

Post by Lord Cailen Sendor » 2012-04-09

Kesrya your question takes us further off track rofl

To be honest I was beeing selfish...

I have petitioned to have the right to fight for king of our organization - to be more exact I have petitioned for a title increase under trial by combat. As a noble who is interested in going up in title there are a few things one must do to qualify.
be a active noble which includes but is not limited to the following:
attendence %
helping to run new player speaches
eldering
following the rules of our game
attending meetings

In the past at times when I felt that I did what was required I found that I was refused title increase because at the time others on the NC disagreed with my assessment that I was worthy which is there right. (This happened several times over several years.)

Because of this, over the past few years I have done everything within my power to make sure the chance of refusal would be as small as possible when I went for a title increase. Just to be clear the current NC is the most diverse and largest counsul that we as a organization has ever had and I am proud to serve. I am trying to uphold what I have done to deserve the right to fight and like I said that includes attendance. So in effect I was being selfish checking in because there was nothing "in game" that I actually needed to do besides volunteer to provide items for the event to be able to run.

Here is my petition (with some items removed because they involve NC duties I have performed)



Greetings to my brothers and sisters on the NC,

It is my intention before I die (44 now rofl) to do everything possible to get the chance to fight for rulership of Darkon.

I understand that King Slindar is currently undergoing surgery and my heart goes out for him to have a successful healing period. I would not wish to face his Majesty unless he is fully healed. What is intended with this application to fight for King is that if approved then the actual fight will only take place when our King is ready and healed. So I am asking for approval to fight when that time comes and his doctors have informed him that he is ready. As you all know, my last fight in the ring caused me to have a heart attack because I was not ready for such physical exertion. Let it be known and as proven by my presence on the field fighting at events that my nuclear stress test showed cleared arteries for the 1 st time in years and my heart is strong with no ill problems. I will state below what I have done both as a player and a Noble and in what ways went beyond what would be required just to be an active Noble.

Started fighting Darkon in 1985.

Member of a country of archers called Alentar.

Joined Validmar serving Archduke Tarim.

Was one of the few in game who chose to play lawful good instead of evil or being neutral.

Became a Paladin to show the Paladin’s at the time what a real Paladin was.

Founded Elidor serving as 1st King of Elidor in 1987.

Appointed Sir Alfred Goldenhue King of Elidor in 1997 retiring to Archduke of Elidor.

Served as Champion for Archduke Tarim.

1st to fight with spear and flail.

Noble fight record of over 30 victories and only one loss and that was when honorably defending against Duke Croaker rising in rank.

Have had over 10 in game squires, both male and female with most being not in the same country as myself.

Have always defended the weak or outnumbered when they were unjustly persecuted regardless of their alignment or religious outlook.

Have played both a ranger and a paladin and is one of the most experienced archers and cavaliers in the game.

Have personally brought over 100 people into Darkon.

Have personally trained over 100 people in Darkon in all forms of weaponry.

Have always helped those new to the game in any and all reasonable ways.

Had a heart attack during one of my Noble fights when defending against Baron Bannor when he was fighting to go up in nobility and succeeded in defending the title successfully.

• In the past recent years I have attended every single Noble meeting that I was able to (missed one because of responsibilities to my Wife and Mother in law and one due to traffic as it was a pre-event meeting).
• Have volunteered to help out with the bylaw review committee and am one of only 4 people that actually took the time to go to a meeting that we planned.
• Live over 1 hour away from just about every event and some events are 2 hours away and even though this is the case I attend almost every event.
• Since 2/06/11 has been a field elder 6 times.
• Ran the commoners tournament recently went even so far to make pennants-targets for archery-introduce a new system to determine the over all winner-kept points-and arranged for those not interested to have a good place to two team all day.
• Over the past years has been the only person to make check in boards and do so whenever called for making the time to ensure they are delivered as needed.
• 2011 requested got approved and preformed the head costume marshal position honorably and responsibly including posting on the DUMB what is required at check in to pass our rules.
• When requested brought and set up castles including the Royal City of Tarimstadt when required for the world plot.
• Made the new ring for Noble fights – store the ring at my home and bring to events as needed.
• After my heart attack and a short healing time, started by coming out again eldering until I got the clearance to fight from one of my doctors.
• Started selling weapons to the game at large at very little profit (almost at cost) and guaranteeing them for 6 months so that people needing weapons get weapons that make our game look better and at the same time are safe.
• Active in NC discussions on the NC board.
• Active on the DUMB boards.
• Have whenever needed stepped up as a representative for the game with local event owners and authorities and done so in a positive manner.
• Built a take down castle at an event (with help and the patience from the event sponsors :) ) then let anyone who wanted to play in it.
• Have attended and at times run noobie meetings as needed.
• Tried to help every new player in any way possible even taking the time to personally go over hits and what is allowed and what is not allowed to those who have come from other games.
• Always available to any player regardless of in game politics or alignments to help them in any way.
• Always act in a responsible manner and step up as needed either for check in duties or weapon checking.
• Attended the new marshal weapon meetings whenever they were run over the past few years.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and I hope that I humbly represent what we as Darkon Nobles do for the game we love.

Prince Cailen Sendor

Aka Patrick Michael Kelly

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have been given the honor of being accepted to fight when our King is ready. The King has chosen not to appoint a champion so I will wait honorably till the fall tournament to be given the chance to fight our King in the ring. If he is not healed by then he has stated that he will appoint a champion. There is no guarentee that I will be able to defeat such a seasoned and experienced opponent and by my honor I am trying to make sure I continue to fulfill every single requirement that could be expected of me.

So like I said I am being selfish while not being selfish.
-Cailen
++ Respect those above your station and train others under you to surpass your achievements - while you treat others with the respect you expect to receive in return! ++

Kesrya
Posts: 35
Joined: 2012-03-19

Re: Increased Dues Question

Post by Kesrya » 2012-04-09

Lord Dubh wrote: nor do I think collecting names/money is part of the event.


I find that to be an arbitrary distinction. The event begins at noon with check-in opening. The people sitting in the check-in line are part of the event. In fact, if a player cannot participate until their name and money has been collected, that pretty much makes this one of the most important parts of the event. You're cherry picking what is part of the event and what is not. What is the distinction to someone sitting in a lawn chair and entering names in the laptop and taking dues from members and someone sitting in a lawn chair and taking pieces of papers with rule change suggestions to be discussed at a later time outside of the event with their team members? If one must pay their dues and wear costuming, so too should the other.
Lady Kesrya Ravine, Mage of Elidor
Torynn, Ranger of Elidor
Fouchon, Party Girl of Redemption

Elidorian Minister of Information
Chair of the Unofficial Elidorian Welcoming Committee
Unofficial Minister of Bitch
Goddess of Cheesy Bacon Potatoes

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Lord Dubh
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 718
Joined: 2012-01-06
Location: Tarimstadt

Re: Increased Dues Question

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-04-09

Tracy,

I am done with this argument on this forum. The policy has been stated (note the word policy, not rule) but it may change dependent on factors that are still in flux and unrelated to your arguments.
Sir Bendore Dubh of Dai-Dagan, CR, KR, OG, OR, CB, CC
Master Thief of Darkon


____

http://www.facebook.com/SirBendoreDubh/

Kesrya
Posts: 35
Joined: 2012-03-19

Re: Increased Dues Question

Post by Kesrya » 2012-04-09

Thank you Cailen for your explanation, and it makes total sense. There have been many times when I have paid dues and shown up at an event for just a few minutes. The year I ran from Magistrate, I was attending a professional conference sponsored by the professional society I am now President of ... I left at the lunch break, drove down to Darkon, paid my dues, threw on a tunic and a skirt, gave my Magistrate speech to Senate, and left immediately after the vote for the position - not even staying for the rest of Senate or the other votes. No one was watching me, no one was requiring me to pay my dues. I did it anyways because I care about the game. So I completely understand what you are saying about being selfish but not being selfish.

I'll admit that while I completely support a dues increase at this point, I think the increase being more than twice the previous amount is going to isolate members. I think arbitrarily applying the rules at events will further that divide, and could potentially lead to a decrease in service to the game. I don't want to see that happening.
Lady Kesrya Ravine, Mage of Elidor
Torynn, Ranger of Elidor
Fouchon, Party Girl of Redemption

Elidorian Minister of Information
Chair of the Unofficial Elidorian Welcoming Committee
Unofficial Minister of Bitch
Goddess of Cheesy Bacon Potatoes

User avatar
Lord Cailen Sendor
Knight of the Realm
Posts: 571
Joined: 2012-01-10
Location: Tarimsdadt conducting interviews for new members of the Royal Court
Contact:

Re: Increased Dues Question

Post by Lord Cailen Sendor » 2012-04-09

Kesrya wrote:I'll admit that while I completely support a dues increase at this point, I think the increase being more than twice the previous amount is going to isolate members. I think arbitrarily applying the rules at events will further that divide, and could potentially lead to a decrease in service to the game. I don't want to see that happening.


I understand that for some 5$ is huge... at the same time we are still one of the cheapest hobies and fighting groups when you consider all the choices - there is a reason that it was increased and I hope that our members can bear the increase.

If is was 10 dollars to fight and we changed it to 25$ then i would understand the 250% argument but really the new dues are just a lil over 1 gallon of gas. The dues are less then a meal at 90% of restrauntants. the dues are less then most duct tape costs.... when you look at it like this and considering we do not reguarly raise dues and it is justified I find it hard to argue against the increase.

On the matter of following rules all players should follow all rules at all times and all be judged as players with the same rights and responsibilities as all other members (outside of what they volunteer to do).
++ Respect those above your station and train others under you to surpass your achievements - while you treat others with the respect you expect to receive in return! ++

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