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Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-21
by Alzarahn
Dagger (Red weapon)
Daggers must have a striking surface between 6" and 8" in length. The total length of a dagger may not exceed 16", the minimum length of a short sword. The tip of the dagger must have additional padding since this weapon is used for thrusting only.


I'm confused by the "striking surface" requirement. Daggers are only used for stabbing.. what's the striking surface?

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-21
by Xunyl
I think that's any part that could come in contact with another player. I.E. The blade that leads up to the handle. Though despite how it looks, you can only use it as a stabbing weapon, not a slashing.

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-21
by Alzarahn
This could use some modification. If it's a shaft length and not a striking surface, then it shouldn't be written as a striking surface. Also, 16" isn't the minimum length of a short sword... it's the minimum length of a short sword's blade.

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-21
by Xunyl
Now seems to be the season for edits and proposals. :)

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-21
by Prince Andrick
Xunyl wrote:Now seems to be the season for edits and proposals. :)



And I hate you all for.it. :twisted:

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-22
by Inox
Yeah, this rule has bothered me for years. It sounds large, but 16" overall length is not huge for a dagger; mine is very close to that, actually, and it's not in any way oversized.

I think it's one of those things that just got a little scrambled at some point, and no one bothered to fix it. There's no good reason we couldn't see a dagger with a 12" blade and 7" handle. I used to have one like that wayyyyyy back when when I was in Ramen.

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-23
by Sir Caetrel
Dagger (Red weapon)

Daggers must have a padded, non-striking blade area at least 6" in length. The tip of the dagger must have additional padding since this weapon is used for thrusting only . The blade length of a dagger may not exceed 16", the minimum length of a short sword.


Fixed?

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-23
by BaiterofBAMC
I'd rather see the wording changed to take out any mention of short sword. The minimum length swung weapon is 18" for bars, clubs, hammers and axes, but then changes for short swords at 16" blade + handle. Let's try to make the weapons standards consistent. <18" - stabbing. => 18" swinging/stabbing

Daggers must have a padded, non-striking blade area at least 6" in length. The tip of the dagger must have additional padding since this weapon is used for thrusting only . The length of a dagger may not exceed 18".

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-23
by Lord Valfryn
If'n you are going that route... state the "full/overall length" of daggers may not exceed. To avoid blade/ full length confusion.

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-23
by Inox
Actually, Baiter, that's incorrect.

Bars, maces, & clubs have an 18" OVERALL length, but short swords are 16" minimum BLADE (NOT counting handle). So, you can have a bar with a 12" striking surface, but this is not possible for a short sword.

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-23
by Lord Valfryn
Yea, I would like to see some uniformity there.
would also like to see it specifically stated in the books if the quillions count as part of the handle or blade measurement. Also if the pommel itself counts, or if handle measurment ends at the base of the pommel.

Does it really matter? Not too much, but its something that has come up a few times in the check in line and I would like to see it all codified.

/end offtopic

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-23
by Prince Andrick
I have to agree. I am inclined, in the name of simplicity, to say all measurements for handles should start where the blade ends. So, something like "when measuring weapons, everything from the top of the crossguard or courtesy padding to the bottom of the pommel is considered part of the handle" which should cover everything I think.

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-23
by Lord Valfryn
I would count the crossguard as part of the blade (to account for the blade built up quillions) and the pommel count as part of the handle ( or not even part of measuring, as its size is indicitive of safety rulings.)

But whichever, I just would like to know how its going to be ruled.

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-23
by Sir Caetrel
This is getting well into proposal discussion territory.

Valfryn, Andrick is on point re: crossguards. They can't be considered blade edge, cause they aren't striking surface. They need to be considered part of the handle just as a pommel.

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-23
by Lord Valfryn
Roger that.

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-23
by Alzarahn
If anyone wants to spearhead a proposal to change the wording, by all means go for it. I'm abstaining from leading rules proposal actions until I have more years...No one is going to want a newb trying to change things, even if it's something that really needed changing.

Go for it

Posted: 2012-01-23
by Sir Caetrel
Anyone intelligent and courteous with a sound ideas would be appreciated in such a capacity, Dwayne. The club survives because people step up to fill empty holes, whether it's admin positions, marshalling, running events, or pointing out vaguaries in the rules and getting them corrected. Darkonians are remarkably open minded, most of the time. :P

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-26
by Sir Tyriel Firebrand
I would think that qullions would be either or. Why not just count the qullions as part of whatever they are apart of.

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-26
by Sir Caetrel
Sir Tyriel Firebrand wrote:I would think that qullions would be either or. Why not just count the qullions as part of whatever they are apart of.


Because they're never blades, you can't hit someone with them. If a 16" shortsword has 2 inches of quillons at the base of the blade, leaving only 14" of striking surface, it's not a legal white sword. Even a little nub of quillion with tape around it is not part of the cloth covered edge.

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-26
by Kobalos
Plus, that just makes it simpler. "Blade" = "striking surface". Total length = striking (blade) + non-striking (quillions, handle, pommel).

Re: Dagger Clarification

Posted: 2012-01-26
by Lord Valfryn
Yes. Wording. Yes.