Rules Clarification Clarification

Ask your rule questions here, players and officials will respond. Questions that turn into proposal discussions will be moved to the Proposal Discussion forum.
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Thrush Svartehjertet
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Rules Clarification Clarification

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-07-29

Flats:
Darkon does not have a rule about hitting with the flat of the blade. Do not enforce a rule that does not exist.


Please elaborate. So one can cause a wound with a flat?

Thrush
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Re: Rules Clarification Clarification

Post by President » 2012-07-29

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:
Flats:
Darkon does not have a rule about hitting with the flat of the blade. Do not enforce a rule that does not exist.


Please elaborate. So one can cause a wound with a flat?

Thrush
berserk


Regretfully, there is no rule in the rulebook discussing flats. I expect a proposal on this very soon as it is simply an over-sight of the rulebook but with the Rules as Written policy a rule that does not exist can not be enforced.

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Thrush Svartehjertet
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Re: Rules Clarification Clarification

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-07-30

Luckily "rule zero", as other games calls it, still exists. Don't do anything unsafe and use common sense.

Page 2:
As in any sport, it is the players/members responsibility to take all precautions to avoid injuries, such as wearing protective gear, building & maintaining safe weapons used for combat, and abiding by all the rules of the game.


Page 8:
The game relies on the Honor System, and that every player abide by it. If you do not have the integrity to abide by the Honor System then you should not be playing in this game. Disregard for the rules takes away from the spirit of the game, as well as the majority of the players' enjoyment and fun. This, above all, cannot be tolerated and will not be accepted by the club.


Page 17:
Weapons
Weapons in Darkon are safely constructed, well-padded representations of typical fantasy or medieval weaponry. Weapons must have a stiff core, which is padded with a closed-cell, semi-hard type of foam; all types of metal cores are prohibited. At no time should the weapon’s core be felt through the foam padding. The entire surface of the weapon must be padded with the exception of the handle or gripping surface. The striking surfaces of all normal weapons must have a cloth cover of black, gray, or brown color.

All weapons must have a well-padded "pommel," which is the non-striking end of the weapon below the gripping surface or handle. Pommels must be at least two inches in diameter (3" in the case of polearms) and covered with cloth or Plasti Dip®. Any swung weapon up to 3’ in length must have a striking surface of at least 6”; any swung weapon over 3’ in length must have a striking surface of at least 12” unless otherwise stated. Any non-striking surface of a weapon may be covered in Plasti Dip®. All weapons must follow certain size requirements to be considered a particular type of weapon. The following is a list of the weapons that are legal in Darkon, along with their color classification and size requirements.

Long Sword or Short Sword (White weapon)
Long or short swords must have a blade of at least 16" in length and less than 36" in length. With respect to game mechanics, there is no difference between a long sword and a short sword. Both types are commonly referred to as "white swords". The blade must have easily distinguishable, squared-off “flats” and edges, and its thickness (edge) must not be more than 2/3 of its width (flat). The handle of a long or short sword may not exceed the length of the striking surface, or 28", whichever is shorter. All long and short swords must have quillions, which is a crossbar of foam between the sword's blade and its handle.


So, to extrapolate that flats technically count as legal strikes, when our rule book is VERY clear that there IS a difference between the STRIKING SURFACE and NON STRIKING SURFACE(/flat) or a sword... Is pure asshattery. The rule book makes enough references to the difference between the two, that anyone who flatted someone would be violating these things:

it is the players/members responsibility to take all precautions to avoid injuries

safely constructed

At no time should the weapon’s core be felt through the foam padding

Disregard for the rules takes away ... the majority of the players' enjoyment and fun. This ... cannot be tolerated and will not be accepted ...



The first person to flat me and tell me to take it is prolly getting punched... then I'll prolly get thrown out.

Thrush
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Ogre Solaris
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Re: Rules Clarification Clarification

Post by Ogre Solaris » 2012-07-30

I would think that we have enough common sense to know that "striking surface" is the part you hit people with.
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Re: Rules Clarification Clarification

Post by President » 2012-07-30

"Common Sense" is not common and can not be relied upon to serve as a rule guide.

The ruling stands. Feel free to fix it or ignore it as you see fit, elders will be enforcing it.

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Re: Rules Clarification Clarification

Post by President » 2012-07-30

Fact - We do not state flats are non-valid hits.

Fact - We talk about striking surface.

Challenge - A clarification that allows me to define striking surface that does not require a rule proposal but can legally be a Presidential Ruling and thus go into effect and maintain the tradition of the club.

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Thrush Svartehjertet
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Re: Rules Clarification Clarification

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-07-30

Maybe I'm failing to see the problem, to ME, reading what I have read in the rule book, there is zero way to think one can hit with the flat and cause damage.

Thrush
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Inox
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Re: Rules Clarification Clarification

Post by Inox » 2012-07-30

As I said on this issue before, White weapons are "cutting" weapons, Black weapons are "cleaving".

The rulebook is clear in distinguishing flats from edges.

An edge is require to cut or cleave. You aren't going to cut me with the flat of a knife, in real life or a game.

Anyone who can't understand this is probably too confused or immature for Darkon or any other fighting game.

Plus, flats are not safe to strike with. They aren't padded as edges are. I see anyone swinging with flats, and as a Noble, in the interest of safety, I will be telling them to cease, immediately. You can have your ruling, but safety trumps absurd minutia quibbling.

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Thrush Svartehjertet
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Re: Rules Clarification Clarification

Post by Thrush Svartehjertet » 2012-07-30

I like Play Dough.

Thrush
berserk
Warriors Guild
Order of the Raven (Arts)
Order of the Mask (Fighter) 2012, 2013
Order of the Stag (Service to the Game)
"I'm going to sacrifice more than anyone else to make a play, I can promise you. And I'm going to hit you so you don't want to play [any] more.''

shroom2021
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Re: Rules Clarification Clarification

Post by shroom2021 » 2012-07-30

I think the only new rule/law/whatever that we need added to the rule book should be the "a-hole" rule.

If what you are about to do can easily be construed as metagaming, intentionally mis-interpreting of the rules, or generally being an a-hole, you may not do it. (insert a few applicable examples here) and allow Darkon to self govern itself without a bunch of extra rules/clarifications/laws and other junk.

Everyone should be here to have fun. If you are not happy swinging a sword around while dressed up as a frickin medieval warrior there are far simpler ways to get your jollies.

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Sir Tyriel Firebrand
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Re: Rules Clarification Clarification

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2012-07-31

This is stupid. If I see someone throwing flats, Im with Inox. I will tell you to knock that * off or your sittin down.
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Garwa Mayharr
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Re: Rules Clarification Clarification

Post by Garwa Mayharr » 2012-07-31

Thrush and the Presidential Ruling are right. I do side with Thrush here as it is a safety concern. However, there is no direct rule for this, but there is enough evidence to back a proposal for the clarification of the sticking surface to weapon. I'm not here to say any-one person is wrong, but we need to be honest and mature (I like Play Dough too!!!) and think about both the realism and the safety aspect of this decision.

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Re: Rules Clarification Clarification

Post by President » 2012-08-01

I have asked the NC to take this up as a Safety Issue. I expect the entire conversation to be null before the next event.

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Sir Gwydion
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Re: Rules Clarification Clarification

Post by Sir Gwydion » 2012-11-19

Haven't logged in in a while, so seeing this incompletely answered is an issue to me.

Officially, the NC voted that striking with the Flat of a weapon is not safe, and therefore is not legal in Darkon.
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Re: Rules Clarification Clarification

Post by President » 2012-11-19

Eric,

It was completely answered here - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=449 way back when it was decided.

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Sir Gwydion
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Re: Rules Clarification Clarification

Post by Sir Gwydion » 2012-11-20

Cool.
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Sometime mistaken for Avlis, Ranger of the Woods of Elidor (also of Gladesedge)

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