Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Forum for the discussion of proposals people would like to make.
President
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by President » 2012-11-20

So, we got rid of Knight Errant, then Lord of the Realm because they caused confusion. Putting ANYTHING with Knight in it back into the game will cause confusion not matter how appropriate it would be....

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Lord Dubh
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-11-20

Here is my proposal based on new bylaws and rules.

Cavalier is a restricted class. A participant who was earned Order of the Sword may elect to give up all ranks in a single class (in which they are 10th rank or higher) in order to start a 1st rank Cavalier. Cavaliers are characters who serve a particular god, or crusade for a cause. They must be of lawful alignment whether it is good, neutral, or evil. Cavaliers may use any weapon (though they disdain the use of missile or ranged weapons) and any type of shield. They are required to wear armor from the AC3 or AC4 armor classes when fighting is expected, and garb which would suit ‘Nobility’ when fighting is not expected.
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HRH Malkin
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by HRH Malkin » 2012-11-20

and garb which would suit ‘Nobility’ when fighting is not expected.


I am against this addition... here's why:

OK By these rules I can now fight without armor if I get jumped...that's all well and good... but now I have an added stipulation that I must wear fine noble garb to do it.

So now when my armor is off I have two options when my group is attacked: I either have to tear up my nice digs, OR slap armor on in order to fight... Because trust me... If I am not wearing armor, some Ahole is going to make a point that I am not in my fineries. Please... don't let that arguement happen... please!!!

Once again I don't see the need to put these stipulations in... We (the cavaliers of Darkon) will and always have worn our good garb and our heavy armor in those times when it is appropriate to do so... And if we don't... we all generally have a good reason as to we why aren't.

If I take my armor off, for whatever reason, knowing that I am just going to put it back in a few minutes... I don't want to be forced by the rules to jump into my Noble Garb, in case I get attacked... Especially when I am all sweaty and nasty from fighting.

If someone is attacking camp and I am not wearing armor or my nice diggs... I should still be able to fight them. Please please please stop adding stipulations on the cav class. There is no need to do this.

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Kobalos
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by Kobalos » 2012-11-20

Good point.

Perhaps you should buy silk skivvies. That way, when you remove your armor for a brief cool-down, and you get attacked, you're wearing undergarments befitting Nobility :)
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by HRH Malkin » 2012-11-20

Nice!

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Lord Cailen Sendor
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by Lord Cailen Sendor » 2012-11-20

lace or silk has always worked but some people just complain when they see some people in it :)
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-11-20

Find a better way of phrasing " don't look like a dirty noob" when not wearing your fighting rig.
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by President » 2012-11-20

HRH Malkin wrote:
and garb which would suit ‘Nobility’ when fighting is not expected.


I am against this addition... here's why:

OK By these rules I can now fight without armor if I get jumped...that's all well and good... but now I have an added stipulation that I must wear fine noble garb to do it.

So now when my armor is off I have two options when my group is attacked: I either have to tear up my nice digs, OR slap armor on in order to fight... Because trust me... If I am not wearing armor, some Ahole is going to make a point that I am not in my fineries. Please... don't let that arguement happen... please!!!

Once again I don't see the need to put these stipulations in... We (the cavaliers of Darkon) will and always have worn our good garb and our heavy armor in those times when it is appropriate to do so... And if we don't... we all generally have a good reason as to we why aren't.

If I take my armor off, for whatever reason, knowing that I am just going to put it back in a few minutes... I don't want to be forced by the rules to jump into my Noble Garb, in case I get attacked... Especially when I am all sweaty and nasty from fighting.

If someone is attacking camp and I am not wearing armor or my nice diggs... I should still be able to fight them. Please please please stop adding stipulations on the cav class. There is no need to do this.


Gary,

It's in the current rules.

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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by HRH Malkin » 2012-11-21

Seriously!?
Man, they really need to start dating the rules changes (in the RB) because that's a bunch of BS!

So basically, by the rules as they are written now we must wear armor all the time, even at feast... but at feast we also have to wear our finest garb with our armor. This really needs to be changed.

Since were changing it anyway... Here's a possible easy fix... Take out the part where it says Cavs are required to wear armor & garb blah blah blah... and put in this:

Cavaliers should make their best attempts to: wear heavy armor in battle and dress appropriately to suit their staus.


This way if they happen to have just taken off thier armor because it's 95 degrees outside and are in some inbetween state of dress when siad cavalier's country get attacked in camp (as has happened with me), the cavalier will be allowed to fight... and not forced to run around looking for their sash, or nice tunic, while their countrymen are dying... at that point it becomes a role-play issue (like: "Prince Malkin, you don't look yourself...") vs. something the EB needs to get involved with.

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Lord Dubh
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-11-21

I would not want some requirement for NICER garb then the common folk to be removed...

In looking in the 1994 rulebook it stated the same thing but in a much better way:
"...garb to denote station."


Taking off your armor and wearing sweats and a white t-shirt is not acceptable, though that can be covered under the costuming rules without anything special under Cav.
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-11-21

Garb befitting nobility is different than "finest garb".

Nobility out hunting or riding wouldn't wear court appearance garb, but they sure as * wouldnt wear a tabard over a T-shirt with sweatpants.
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fingers630
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by fingers630 » 2012-11-21

what about an underarmor tshirt and cowboy hat? cause if they are out, Tyriel will never be a Cavalier!
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by HRH Malkin » 2012-11-21

Unfortunately T-shirt and sweatpants is what I wear under my armor (I always have) because fighting in my armor F's destroys my garb... so when I take my armor off... I can slap on my surcoat on if I need to... but I don't want to be forced to immediately change out of my sweaty clothes into some medium attire fit for noblity, just for the possibility that someone might attack us... That makes no sense.

If you get caught in between you should still be allowed to fight by the rules and by these rules, you can't...this is ridiculous... That's all I am saying.

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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by Lord Cailen Sendor » 2012-11-21

I think and have always applied the following

when I am required to fight I start the day in armor
when I am not required to fight I start the day in armor or something good looking ... I normally wear a tunic that has arming points ...

I do not see anyone here claiming or requiring after removing armor that I need to get dollied up before fighting but at the same time if I am planning to be in character - traveling - then i consider to myself I need to have a minium on to do so

so if caught inbetween so be it I will pick up a weapon and lay in nothing in the rules should prevent this and I think the way it is written now it does not prevent this all we are trying to prevent is joe the cav walking around looking like * while he intends to be in character I think the wording does this
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Sir Tyriel Firebrand
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2012-11-21

I would agree with you Cailen, if only someone has not already thrown the rulebook at someone who is getting attacked in there camp while they are eating lunch with their armor off.

Also, I will have you know:
1. Straw cowboy hats are sexy as hell.
2. My garb is better then 85% of the game
3. I'm sexy and I know it
4. Profit lol
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by Lord Cailen Sendor » 2012-11-21

I think we need a rule for the person that threw the rulebook :) hopefully because of the hat you were able to deflect it harmlessly from you as you defended yourself!
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by Lord Valfryn » 2012-11-21

arming coats
leather or studded jerkins are acceptable
tunics
functioning transforming bumblebee suits
all acceptable outerwear for a non combatant cavalier.
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by Joybringer » 2012-11-21

Lord Valfryn wrote:arming coats
leather or studded jerkins are acceptable
tunics
functioning transforming bumblebee suits
all acceptable outerwear for a non combatant cavalier.

And silk skivvies.

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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by Gor Strayhorn » 2012-11-22

To me, nobles should be held to a higher standard than the general players. I wish Costume Marshals like myself could fail t-shirt and sweatpants garb, I know it's easy and cheap it looks that way too. You're nobles, you spent years in Darkon, hundreds of dollars on weapons and armor, but can't spent $20 for a tunic and simple pants. Add $5-$10 pick out a nice trim and you're done.
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fingers630
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by fingers630 » 2012-11-22

If we were playing SCA or a full reinacting group I may agree with you, but someone wearing sweats under their full plate has 0 effect on my enjoying hitting them with a fake sword. If it offends you that much, go play SCA.
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Lord Dubh
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-11-22

YAY! Mature debate.... "Don't like it, then leave"

That aside, how about the rules.

Armor does count as costuming; however when the armor is removed while still participating at the event, proper costuming must be worn.


With that statement in the rules, I am not concerned about what it says under Cavalier.
Sir Bendore Dubh of Dai-Dagan, CR, KR, OG, OR, CB, CC
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Sir Tyriel Firebrand
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2012-11-22

Isn't t-shirt and sweatpants legal buy our rules though????
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Lord Dubh
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by Lord Dubh » 2012-11-23

Sir Tyriel Firebrand wrote:Isn't t-shirt and sweatpants legal buy our rules though????


Of course not. The only people that wear t-shirts and sweatpants as a costume are new people, which is permitted by the Costume Marshal.

Why the hell would you even WANT this to be true??
Sir Bendore Dubh of Dai-Dagan, CR, KR, OG, OR, CB, CC
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Sir Tyriel Firebrand
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by Sir Tyriel Firebrand » 2012-11-23

I didn't say I wanted it, I was just asking a question lol. In all seriousness, I feel as long as someone isn't hanging out in camp with a Metallica Tshirt on and they have a decent tunic they should be fine.
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Re: Cavalier - Replace Omitted Text

Post by HRH Malkin » 2012-11-23

Thanks Fingers I totally agree with you here:

... someone wearing sweats under their full plate has 0 effect on my enjoying hitting them with a fake sword.


I wear nice garb when I am going to feast and try to do so when I am don't with fighting at a camp out... I don't wear that stuff under my armor as ANYTHING that goes under my plate gets torn to shreds. Thusly I don't even want to wear partially nice stuff underneath. I don't see why we must wear anything better than anyone else underneath my armor, since you don't even see it. If every once in a while I have to slap on my surcoat over my T-shirt so I can help my camp beat down an enemy WHO REALLY F-ING CARES?!?!

Why must we have a rule that says I can't do this? Is it really enhancing your fantasy so much when we throw colored pillows, wear neon green items, use the equivalent of an upholstered seat as a shield, and swing padded sticks as weapons.

I think, for one moment, you might be able to suspend a bit of disbeliefe that a noble isn't wearing nice garb (NOR his armor) for a couple minutes inbetween breaks. Sheesh!

This argument is UBER-LAME!

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