With the Crown War approaching please ask your questions

[Lord Cailen Sendor]

It will be run as if it is a land war

If you have any questions about the rules for this event please ask them so we are all on the same page !

[Sir Aethilgar]

Adventure Spells/Abilities (Yes/No)
Poisons (Yes/No)
Potions (Yes/No)
Scrolls (Yes/No)

... Dragon-pulled Chariots (Yes/No)

[President]

Adventure Spells/Abilities (Yes/No)
Poisons (Yes/No)
Potions (Yes/No)
Scrolls (Yes/No)

... Dragon-pulled Chariots (Yes/No)

It will be run in accordance with the rules on invasions and sieges in Chapter 9.

No Adventure spells/abilities
Yes poison can be used
no potions
no scrolls

A clarification is to allow immune to poison and neutralize poison whenever poison is permitted.

[Lord Dubh]

This is how it will work:

Fight 1 - Open field battle. Every knight that wishes to take part in the battle takes the field with their allies. Think of it as a Chaos Battle of all the Knights of the Realm. Literally ANYTHING can happen in this fight. Alliances can be made and broken until one united team/person is left. . The team that wins will declare the Knight they support as High King. Note that it DOES NOT have to be the Knight that declared the war it just has to be a Knight that took the field.

Fight 2 - Siege Battle - This is a Two Team siege battle, Winner of Fight 1 and allies outside with the High King and allies inside. Winner take all. We called the castle in this fight Tarimstadt for RP reasons, it just made sense.

[Volney]

What hit system is planned for the event?

[Lord Dubh]

What hit system is planned for the event?

Will have an answer for you after Sunday.

[fingers630]

Im assuming same death "memory loss" is in effect for the battles as normal darkon battles?

[Lord Dubh]

Im assuming same death "memory loss" is in effect for the battles as normal darkon battles?

OK, not to be snarky but why is this a question? Do we have memory loss during invasions?? Sieges?? Is it even an issue???

[fingers630]

Check your PMs

[Amazing_Iltztafein]

I think John is saying it's not usually a problem... But I think with this it could be. I've seen country battles take 5 minutes sometimes (as in, the actual battle "LINE UP IN YOUR COUNTRIES"), while wars can be done in 2 minutes. With armies belonging to knights, it'll be like a country battle. 5 minute memory loss can mean a lot.

[Kobalos]

I assume the 5 minutes before death are ALWAYS lost. If someone gets butthurt because you backst--, er, something surprised them, that's on them to roleplay accordingly. If you mention the reality of the situation at all, it should be later over a beer. It's a game, right?

[fingers630]

I ask because purely hypothetically...

Iltz fields with the King. During the battle, Iltz casts pro ice on the king, thrush and Croaekr, however the king nor his fighter brethren know magic, and Iltz SAYS "YOu are now protected from fire your majesty"

Fight one, Iltz fireballs Slindar, Thrush, and Croaker, killing all three just as Cailen and his Knights crash into the line.

Slindar's side loses the battle, however no one from his side saw Iltz do this. So Iltz is now free to stand with Slindar's force inside the keep, again backstabbing them if he wishes. Right?

You may think this sort of thing would never happen, yet I assure you it has, and when land wars were 2 out of 3 fights, it led to some huge metagaming * by the team that was backstabbed. I was just asking for the assurance that elders would do everything in their power to make sure the backstabbers werent cheesed. Not everyone is a White Mantle

[President]

The Crown War is designed to allow people to field with whomever they wish and kill or even betray whomever they wish. However, no one can be in this fight without an invitation from a Knight of the Realm. So in order to do what you describe, you would have to be invited by a Knight who is against the Knight you actually support.

I have been calling the first fight a Chaos Battle of Knights, but it is more like a Country Battle with alliances, but instead of countries, each team is a Knight of the Realm and all those non-Knghts that are on his team. For example, Sir Bendore is NOT on the same team as Sir Slindar or Sir Cailen, he is his own team. Who he supports in the end may be known but until the last people are standing you won't really know who he supports. You can expect the various Knights to form up into two teams within moments of the start of the fight but by then the Knight your with will already be identified.

So to answer your question, if you can convince a Knight of the Realm to accept you on his side for the 1st fight and you kill him. Unless a witness to your betrayal survives you should be able to be on the same side as said Knight the 2nd fight.

As far as metagaming goes. You just betrayed people, and that is not something our brains allows us to suspend so your asking that a person who KNOWS your going to backstab them to allow you to do it again. As much as we want to say they can't react to you until you act, we both know that won't happen. As a player, what you can do is find another team to be on that is against the guy your support and betray them. They probably did not see your act and won't be psychologically prone to react to your presence. The team you did betray? That will help decrease the metagaming.

So here is the official word - Metagaming is against the rules. You can not kill-on-site any person that betrayed you in the first fight unless you SAW it happen, and you survived. You must act as if the betrayal did not occur and only act against they person if they betray you during the fight. This is not a new rule or a clarification.

[Lord Cailen Sendor]

" unless you SAW it happen"

theroetically true ... but in instances where you have asked a person any person to flee the fight anything they saw before turning and running they should be able to report what they saw (like a land search) that should take care of this problem

and yes this leads to more roleplaying fancy that ... what if the report is incorect? what if they lie? do you check thier words with a spell or trust blindly what they report


ah to roleplay again

[fingers630]

Correct, and you can feel free to truthspeak my monk ass all day long if you think Im lying....

[Amazing_Iltztafein]

I ask because purely hypothetically...

Iltz fields with the King. During the battle, Iltz casts pro ice on the king, thrush and Croaekr, however the king nor his fighter brethren know magic, and Iltz SAYS "YOu are now protected from fire your majesty"

Fight one, Iltz fireballs Slindar, Thrush, and Croaker, killing all three just as Cailen and his Knights crash into the line.

Slindar's side loses the battle, however no one from his side saw Iltz do this. So Iltz is now free to stand with Slindar's force inside the keep, again backstabbing them if he wishes. Right?

You may think this sort of thing would never happen, yet I assure you it has, and when land wars were 2 out of 3 fights, it led to some huge metagaming * by the team that was backstabbed. I was just asking for the assurance that elders would do everything in their power to make sure the backstabbers werent cheesed. Not everyone is a White Mantle

Well, it looks like I have to rethink my plans now.

[President]

What hit system is planned for the event?

Crown War will be using the system in the rulebook.

[Lord Cailen Sendor]

this was asked in another post ...

by shroom2021 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:42 am

I was wondering, if the crown war is following adventure rules, is it possible to take characters captive and even hold them hostage during the course of that day?

it was answered that some things will be done on the fly reguarding the event - while that sounds fine I would wish all things to be able to be asked in advance so that on the feild there will be 0 reason for anyone to have a reason to gripe

with the above question... several things i wish to ask for clarification..

1. the Crown war is seperate from the event itself as such I am assuming any people that are captured during the day before the war starts will be able to feild in the war as if the capture did not occur basically like all land events reguardless of what is occuring that day people can chose to be in one offensive action that day and the crown war is thier offensive action...

2. if any of the kings troops are captured outside the fort during the 1st fight what is the ruling on if they can then enter and defend the fort the second seige attack (it would be my assumption they would be considered as seperate events and because the spell points get regened all captives would be not considered captive for the second fight and would be allowed to reform inside the keep ) this does not effect the attackers because if they loose the 1st fight the crown war is over.

[Lord Cailen Sendor]

In addition I would like to point out that the crown war will be using battle day rules but the event will be using adventure rules ... as these are different rule sets and to avoid overlap I would like to point out a example of a possible issue...

in the 1st fight of the day one team wins the 2 team ... then assinates the other team on the feild -- before the crown war takes place there by removing either some of the Kings forces or some of the challengers forces from playing thier character for the day ....

I would like it to be stated as it has before that land events (which the crown war really is not ) are treated seperate and any actions that day in the adventure be treaed seperate from the crown war actions.... in that manner the crown war will stand on its own for what it is

I would like a presidential ruling that the crown war will be held seperate from the days activites and that every player wishing to be in the war using thier character they singed in for the day be allowed to field in the war in that character - that way reguardless of when the crown war actually kicks off it will be outside of the rest of things going on

also how are we going to treat the relics - who has them at end of the camp out gets them or when the time during the day that the crown war is called who ever is in possision of them at that moment gets them...

also according to the rules who ever starts a land war having the relics will remain in possion of them on any further land wars that day ...meaning if someone starts with the sword of slaying in the first feild fight do they keep it in the castle attack after or are the events considered seperate and who ever is in possession at the end of the 1st fight starts the second fight having what ever relic it is

[Lord Dubh]

NOTE I AM NOT POSTING AS PRESIDENT!

The VISION of High King is that it is a role one plays in the game. It is not a title one earns through service but through a test of arms, be it a one-on-one fight or by raising an army and risking all to snatch the crown from the current High King.

The VISION of the Crown War is to engage the realm is all it's glory to choose the next High King. This would include allowing all sorts of activity from behind the scenes dealings, to assassinations prior to the Knights taking the field, thus killing them before they had a chance to be High King.

The only reason Crown War itself does not use adventure rules is for playability.

My personal opinion is that you should watch your back and keep a cleric close at hand.

I will think on it more and get other opinions before making a statement as President.

[Lord Cailen Sendor]

that would be a good idea John ... as this is a ooc forum to get everyone on the same page so we all can have fun and problems can be worked out cleanly BEFORE we are on the feild I think posting in character thoughts should be kept to a minium .. that is why I posted my question in the maner it was requested - all land wars have always been outside of the other events for the day that were occuring ... and even I have been told that when people elder for the day they have and can still participate in a land action - I see the crown war as this type of event and wish to remove as much as possible the chance for the elders to get confused on a ruling or the old it used to be that way type of argument or discussion ... this is to get everyone to know clearly and cleanly what is and is not allowed in this event especally because we have never had one

[Lord Dubh]

I do understand.

What I do not want is for this to become just another thing the Knights and their friends do. Making Crown War sacrosanct also violates my personal goal of increasing the ability for the general membership to interact with the nobility, and even have a say in how it functions and interacts...all as part of the World role play.

I do not want people to be cheesed. I do want people to be screwed in-character. I want it to be that Fingers can assassinate Bendore when Bendore is chilling in his 'camp' and thus remove him from any chance of being High King because well, he is dead. I do not want Rift to be able to assassinate Slindar when he is simply walking from the field battle to his chair to pick up a replacement weapon.

[Lord Cailen Sendor]

yea I agree ... we have noble other things going on that day with eldering ring ights -helping knights to get into costume and armor - helping to run the event --- ect...

what I see is the following points...

1. land wars of any type are and have always been outside of the regular event going on that day

2. people that elder for the day have always been able to actually field for thier country in all land actions reguardless of the fact they are refereeing that day

3. in the past it was solidified that all tournament functions be ourside of any day events ... no assination no ablity to capture people no ability to poison a player and have them not be able to climb in the ring or judge a ring fight

4. each seperate fight for the crown war is on a seperate spell point reset meaning in that way one is not affected or changed by the other all spell points reset...

I know it would be cool to have the events run together but at the same time I think it is impossible to not have issues if you allow a adventure rule to change something that expressly does not allow adventure rules.... or for that matter someone to be captured at any point in the day and have them be forced to sit out the crown war or any part of its indivual fights that wil occur

if adventure rules are allowed it will cause issues that will piss off people --- if people get assinated and they are not allowed to feild in the war then again it will cause issues that will piss off people ... if you allow it where do you say it stops and the other begins... that is a form of metagaming and I thought we wanted to prevent that ...

in essance the day event is us all acting like ourselves but in a crown war I can guerentee the King didnt walk from his car to get to the feild I can guarentee he is with and has been with his people in the castle preparing ... not walking alone to get his chair to move it closer to the ring ...

really we all do want to have fun here correct? we do not want cheese correct? and we want to beat the hell out of each other like we reguarly do correct? and then we want to go to the restraunt after and talk about the fun we had correct?


allowing cheese will lead to people not volunteering for things ... every fight on the regular feild one side wins ... do you want one fight to make it so a noble or anyone else can not be involved in the war? what if you allow assasins and the king dies in the feild battle and someone walks up and places a writ on him and another person casts last rights would then that one act not allow the king to take the feild and there by loose his rule because he lost a feild two team fight that had 0 to do with the war?

[fingers630]

I do understand.

What I do not want is for this to become just another thing the Knights and their friends do. Making Crown War sacrosanct also violates my personal goal of increasing the ability for the general membership to interact with the nobility, and even have a say in how it functions and interacts...all as part of the World role play.

I do not want people to be cheesed. I do want people to be screwed in-character. I want it to be that Fingers can assassinate Bendore when Bendore is chilling in his 'camp' and thus remove him from any chance of being High King because well, he is dead. I do not want Rift to be able to assassinate Slindar when he is simply walking from the field battle to his chair to pick up a replacement weapon.

exactly. we need a definitive as to when play officially begins that day. is it 1:01pm after check in closes? well what if people start two teaming or having an ic chat at 1235 cause they are already checked in and ready to go? my only issue with adventure rules is that clearly there are some times when you are "out of game".

if i left my car door open and had to go close it, if i saw my kid fall off the jungle gym and ran over to make sure he was ok, if my wife called because her mother got taken to the hospital. i would hope people would be considerate in these times, but its hard to come up with a "this is when you are in character" blanket statement.

that being said, I vow not to assassinate anyone on the 4th

[Amazing_Iltztafein]

The clear difference I see between this and a land war is that a Crown War is a type of event (the event type is listed as CROWN WAR on the schedule).

In a land war, the armies are there - miles from everybody else. You can't assassinate anybody or anything like that because they are far from assassins. In a Crown War, EVERYBODY in Darkon is at Tarimstadt or some other place - we're all in the same place. We've all made camps and are all preparing for the war. Anybody that assassinates anybody would actually reasonably be in the place they're assassinating the people - the same place the massive battle will take place later.

As for nobles being assassinated - aren't all of your characters a noble by the rules? If you are assassinated, then you simply play a different noble character. This means you can still field as a noble, just as a different class than you signed in as.

An actual noble in real life at any battle field would likely be watching their back for assassins constantly. Unless their opponents are super honorable.

Anyway, that is what comes to mind after reading this thread and the questions people brought up.

You may continue to bicker amongst yourselves.